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[TN] Nathan
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 Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 4:13 am Post subject: Advertisement |
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[KoG]^weaZel
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| Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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This memory would really sing in a motherboard that could supply it with additional voltage. So either a volt-modded board or one of the many A64 motherboards that offer high vdimm options.
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[TN] Nathan
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| Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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True, in part...
At 2.8volts, this memory should go higher than DDR440. I was a little disappointed with the overclocking and higher vdimm or not, this memory shoul dhave done a lot more than it did.
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[KoG]^weaZel
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| Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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BH-5 really likes alot of juice. If it was TCCD then I would say it would do alot more on the lower voltage.
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[TN] Nathan
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| Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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| [KoG]^weaZel wrote: | | BH-5 really likes alot of juice. If it was TCCD then I would say it would do alot more on the lower voltage. |
But I was supplying 2.8volts like most motherboards are capable of.
Very few motherboards allowing higher values than that.
I have tested PC3200 memory that has overclocked beyond PC4000 speed with 2.8volts.
I have to claim what I tested. I am not going to claim an overclock that a reader can only get when tehy use a board with extreme voltage settings.
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[KoG]^weaZel
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| Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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| [TN] Nathan wrote: | But I was supplying 2.8volts like most motherboards are capable of.
Very few motherboards allowing higher values than that.
I have tested PC3200 memory that has overclocked beyond PC4000 speed with 2.8volts.
I have to claim what I tested. I am not going to claim an overclock that a reader can only get when tehy use a board with extreme voltage settings. |
more and more of today's motherboards that use DDR have the extended vdimm range or at least the enthusiast level products do. And this is the crowd that the memory is gear towards.
I know you have tested other memory that has gotten to those levels at the lower voltage. This is because it is based off of different chips. And that is reason why the clock different.
I will say this, the OCZ 433 in this review would be great for the DX machines I have built. Because the chipset maxes out about 215 to 220. And I have noticed that D2OL benefits from the tighter timings. But the price is a little high for what you get. I bought OCZ pc3200 bh-5 for $140 that does 2-2-2-5.
It all boils down to "what do you want from your hardware?" In your experience with this product you have come to the conclusion that it isn't something that you would want. But to someone else this might be just the thing they are looking for. It all depends on wants and needs.
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[TN] Nathan
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| Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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I realise that, but I cannot assume the reader buying this memory will indeed have a motherboard with the higher vdimm voltages.
My integrity will be in jeopardy if I didn't mention it and someone went out to use this on a non-enthusiest motherboard and could not get the value out of their investment.
Saying that people buying this memory will have the appropriate motherboard is not an asuumption I will chose to make and I will lay everything honestly on the line for the reader to judge.
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[KoG]^weaZel
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| Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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And you did just that. You did a good review and stated your findings.
I just wanted to add that the memory would be a good match for some hardware that can give it more voltage. I know not everyone has that nor do they need it.
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[TN] Nathan
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| Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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| [KoG]^weaZel wrote: | And you did just that. You did a good review and stated your findings.
I just wanted to add that the memory would be a good match for some hardware that can give it more voltage. I know not everyone has that nor do they need it. |
But we can't claim it will be good unless we actually test it and KNOW that it will overclock even with the higher voltages. 
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[KoG]^weaZel
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| Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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This is true. I was speaking from past experience of using BH-5 based memory.
And hey if you need someone to test that memory out at higher voltages I have five system each capable of vdimms in excess of 3.2v 
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racing87stang
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| Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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HOW!!! 
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tabasco
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:06 am Post subject: |
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Nathan,
You did an outstanding and honest review of the product. People should look at what the Motherboard Manufactuer has tested and recommends for RAM. I have never seen OCZ listed.
I do remember back a few years back that there was a big investigation about OCZ, and who they really were. You can still find a lot of it on the net if you do a google search, "ocz exposed" keep the " " around the keywords. Read what they found and draw your own conclusions. I for one wouldn't touch OCZ with a 10ft pole.
My 2 cents |
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[TN] Nathan
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:26 am Post subject: |
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| tabasco wrote: | Nathan,
You did an outstanding and honest review of the product. People should look at what the Motherboard Manufactuer has tested and recommends for RAM. I have never seen OCZ listed.
I do remember back a few years back that there was a big investigation about OCZ, and who they really were. You can still find a lot of it on the net if you do a google search, "ocz exposed" keep the " " around the keywords. Read what they found and draw your own conclusions. I for one wouldn't touch OCZ with a 10ft pole.
My 2 cents |
I appreciate your kind words. Some manufacturers do recommend OCZ if memory (pardon the pun) serves me correctly but I would never only use what the motherboard manufacturer recommends seeing alot of those recommendation arrangements are only made in the corporate boardroom and not in the testing lab if you know what I mean.
As for OCZ's past issues, I personally don't want to bring them into this review or thread. For a long time now OCZ has been nothing but a great memory manufacturer and most of the consumer base lost during that time has returned.
Their products are excellent and very well made and I wouldn't be reviewing them if I wasn't fully comfortable with their situation.
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Last edited by [TN] Nathan on Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:48 am; edited 1 time in total |
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[KoG]^weaZel
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:34 am Post subject: |
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| racing87stang wrote: | | HOW!!! |
with 5 voltmodded Asus PC-DL Deluxe Dual Xeon motherboards. They should push close to 3.5 volts to the vdimm.
tabasco,
To each his own. Also of note those stories are three and a half years old. OCZ was founded by enthusiasts for enthusiasts. They started out small but have grown alot in the last few years. Just like BFG technologies.
I have just recently started using OCZ, some of their Gold PC3200 BH-5 modules. And to be honest they have been some of the easiest sticks to work with. This is taking into account that I have used Corsair, Crucial, Geil, Kingston, Mushkin, Patriot, generic and now OCZ. The Corsair and Kingston has always worked no problems and I am finding OCZ to be the same way. The others it seems that they need to be tinkered with from time to time to keep them working properly.
Back OT, I am thinking aobut using this memory in the watercooled DX that is currently on the bench (read: been working on this for about 3 to 4 weeks)
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tabasco
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:59 am Post subject: |
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| [KoG]^weaZel wrote: |
...with 5 voltmodded Asus PC-DL Deluxe Dual Xeon motherboards. They should push close to 3.5 volts to the vdimm....
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Weazel, what did you do to the mobo to make the 5v mod? Sounds interesting |
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[KoG]^weaZel
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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it's not a 5v mod, it's that I have five PC-DL motherboards that have been vmodded.
HERE is a good source of PC-DL mods.
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tabasco
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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Very Cool  Thanks for the link |
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Freddy
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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Hello Nathan,
I just read your review and even though I respect your honesty, I would like to point out to you that the Winbond BH-5 chips do NOT support CAS 3! You say you were disappointed by the fact that they did not overclock very well at 2-2-2-5 (by the way 220 MHz at 2-2-2-5 with only 2.8 V is really pretty good!) and they did not work at all at 3-4-4-8. But there are a lot of options in between: because BH-5 is not able to use CAS 3 it did not work at 3-4-4-8, but would you have used 2-3-2-5 (RAS to CAS Delay = 3) it would have gone at least as far as 230 MHz and with a little higher latencies, maybe even further! But remember: only use CAS = 2 or CAS = 2.5!
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[TN] Nathan
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| Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 12:49 am Post subject: |
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| Freddy wrote: | Hello Nathan,
I just read your review and even though I respect your honesty, I would like to point out to you that the Winbond BH-5 chips do NOT support CAS 3! You say you were disappointed by the fact that they did not overclock very well at 2-2-2-5 (by the way 220 MHz at 2-2-2-5 with only 2.8 V is really pretty good!) and they did not work at all at 3-4-4-8. But there are a lot of options in between: because BH-5 is not able to use CAS 3 it did not work at 3-4-4-8, but would you have used 2-3-2-5 (RAS to CAS Delay = 3) it would have gone at least as far as 230 MHz and with a little higher latencies, maybe even further! But remember: only use CAS = 2 or CAS = 2.5!
Freddy |
I understand, but there is just not any point to paying money for low speed high latency memory when you can get higher speed memory that overclocks much higher at 3-8-4-4.
Timings mean absolutely nothing unless you cpu can't overclock that high or you are staying completely at stock speeds.
The memory is just to expesive for what it offers. I can buy PC3200 memory much cheaper that I can drop to 3-8-4-4 and go well over 240Mhz front side bus and get better performance to boot.
As said in the review, this memory will be good for a stock system, but for the price it is not bringing enough to the table regardless of what chips it is made of.
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Freddy
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| Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 10:50 am Post subject: |
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| [TN] Nathan wrote: | I understand, but there is just not any point to paying money for low speed high latency memory when you can get higher speed memory that overclocks much higher at 3-8-4-4.
Timings mean absolutely nothing unless you cpu can't overclock that high or you are staying completely at stock speeds. |
I am sure not everyone will agree with you on that! 
| [TN] Nathan wrote: | The memory is just to expesive for what it offers. I can buy PC3200 memory much cheaper that I can drop to 3-8-4-4 and go well over 240Mhz front side bus and get better performance to boot.
As said in the review, this memory will be good for a stock system, but for the price it is not bringing enough to the table regardless of what chips it is made of. |
No matter what your personal taste is (Low Latency or High Frequency), it is not fair when you state it can not overclock any higher than 220 MHz when that simply is NOT true! What would you prefer: 240 MHz 3-4-4-8, or say 235 MHz 2-3-3-6!? I really think that last option would perform a lot better and at least deserves to be mentioned in your review! |
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[TN] Nathan
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| Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Freddy wrote: | | I am sure not everyone will agree with you on that! |
That is fine, I am not woriting this review so everyone agrees with it.  I write honest reviews based on real testing and I don't ever fluff up a product to be more than what it is. For the money, this memory is limited.....period.
| Freddy wrote: | | No matter what your personal taste is (Low Latency or High Frequency), it is not fair when you state it can not overclock any higher than 220 MHz when that simply is NOT true! What would you prefer: 240 MHz 3-4-4-8, or say 235 MHz 2-3-3-6!? I really think that last option would perform a lot better and at least deserves to be mentioned in your review! |
You need to re-read what I said because I said OVER 240Mhz and some of them went over 250Mhz.
Yes, it is fair to state it cannot overclock any higher when it wouldn't overclock and higher. Please do not come in here and start saying I tested it wrong seeing I tested it just like all the other DDR memory I tested on this site and please stop with the "could've, would've, should've" when in fact it didn't.
There is nothing said on OCZ's site that this memory will not do 3-8-4-4, there is no mention of higher voltages needed to go higher and if you think I am going to run through all the meory timings to find a 5 Mhz increase you are mistaken. When some consumer buys this memory and finds out that they can't drop the memory timings or overclock it because their mother board doesn't go up to a vdimm of 3.3v, you sure as hell that I am going to let them know about it instead of testing this memory in its perfect environment which is technically no even described on the product page.
Again, this memory is completely overpriced for what it does and there are far more flexible and user friendly kits on the market for people to buy. If I buy a memory kit, I want control of the timings and I want the flexibility to loosen the memory timings so I can get a better overclock and get better overall performance when using a divider of 1:1.
For example this memory:
http://tweaknews.pricegrabber.com/search_getprod.php/masterid=6810220
Review here:
http://www.tweaknews.net/reviews/pqi3200/
This memory could have the memory loosened off to 3-8-4-4 and go well over DDR500 for US$90 and getter overall system performance.
or maybe perhaps here?
Where do you see timings making a huge difference in performance here? It doesn't and even some of the competitors DDR memory at the same speed is running the same performance at 3-8-4-4.
I would have thought differently if they actually stated all these special precautions you had to take to actually use their memory. They need to allow the consumer to know how to overclock and use this memory if they want people to be happy with it.
For US$55 more people can get a 2gb PC4000 DDR kit which holds much more value than this product.
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Freddy
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| Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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| [TN] Nathan wrote: | | Yes, it is fair to state it cannot overclock any higher when it wouldn't overclock and higher. Please do not come in here and start saying I tested it wrong seeing I tested it just like all the other DDR memory I tested on this site and please stop with the "could've, would've, should've" when in fact it didn't. |
If you would (sorry about that would) have tested them at all possible latencies and it still could not overclock any higher, you would have been absolutely right! Now you were just incomplete! |
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[TN] Nathan
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| Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Freddy wrote: | | [TN] Nathan wrote: | | Yes, it is fair to state it cannot overclock any higher when it wouldn't overclock and higher. Please do not come in here and start saying I tested it wrong seeing I tested it just like all the other DDR memory I tested on this site and please stop with the "could've, would've, should've" when in fact it didn't. |
If you would (sorry about that would) have tested them at all possible latencies and it still could not overclock any higher, you would have been absolutely right! Now you were just incomplete! |
Your arguement is honestly pointless.
Why am I going to play around with this kit for 6 hours when I can put in another kit, raise the timings to 3-8-4-4 and go to DDR520?!!!
Again, if you think I am going to test this memory any different than the rest than you are asking me to deceive my readers which count on me to be honest, understanding and legitimate.
Your posts completely disregard all the proof I have shown to completely obliterate your OPINION, and then you move on to start insulting how I review here which I won't tolerate.
I will stick to being honest and you can take your bias elsewhere.
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mojo1340
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| Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Freddy wrote: | | [TN] Nathan wrote: | I understand, but there is just not any point to paying money for low speed high latency memory when you can get higher speed memory that overclocks much higher at 3-8-4-4.
Timings mean absolutely nothing unless you cpu can't overclock that high or you are staying completely at stock speeds. |
I am sure not everyone will agree with you on that!
| [TN] Nathan wrote: | The memory is just to expesive for what it offers. I can buy PC3200 memory much cheaper that I can drop to 3-8-4-4 and go well over 240Mhz front side bus and get better performance to boot.
As said in the review, this memory will be good for a stock system, but for the price it is not bringing enough to the table regardless of what chips it is made of. |
No matter what your personal taste is (Low Latency or High Frequency), it is not fair when you state it can not overclock any higher than 220 MHz when that simply is NOT true! What would you prefer: 240 MHz 3-4-4-8, or say 235 MHz 2-3-3-6!? I really think that last option would perform a lot better and at least deserves to be mentioned in your review! |
Hey Freddy, post up some screenies that show how much better your OCZ EL PC3500 performs at 235 vs. 240 at those timings. I'd be very interested to see them. |
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fussnfeathers
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| Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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Freddy doesn't seem to understand the concept of standardized testing procedures. If Nathan (or anybody else, for that matter) were to make individual, specific testing rules for each brand reviewed, then the results would be seriously skewed, and not show an overall matchup between brands/models.
Say I were to review two different studio monitors................but I reviewed one in a totally isolated room, with pristine sound absorption, top of the line cabling, and a straight digital master, and reviewed the other in my living room with a few MP3's, would you consider the comparisons fair?
In effect, that's what you're asking Nathan to do, Freddy. TN gives fair reviews, based on a standard series of tests. No extreme tweaking, no volt mods, no unfair advantages of one over the other.
At any rate, a review that would give a score based on a hardware tweak that is not available on all boards is not a fair review.
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