EPOX 8K7A random crashes and hang-ups

Ishtim

Tweak Gurus:

I am trying to help out a co-worker troubleshoot his system.
EPOX 8K7A w/ AMD XP 1800
(2) 256 PC2100
GeForce 4 4400
Win98

Installing more than one RAM module causes 3d games to crash (warcraft 3, half-life, serious sam), but one works fine all the time. As soon as I put in another stick in with the other one, it starts crashing. I ran memtest on both sticks separately (3 cycles ~ 24 hrs) and didn't get any errors.

Originally, it had a generic 256 in the machine that was causing crashes (and tested bad w/ memtest), which prompted us to try some new RAM. The first stick worked fine, so we got another one. Adding a second one is now causing crashes.

It's starting to sound more like a mobo problem to me.

I checked the capacitors (seen epox cap issues before) and didn't see anything that looked like it could be leaking or bulging. And the voltages according to BIOS:
Vcore- 1.83
Vagp- 1.59
3.3- 3.49
5- 5.17
12- 13.14
Are these voltages getting too high? Would that cause problems?
_________________
AMD XP 2500+ Barton
Asus A7N8X Deluxe 1.4 (1002.a)
2x 512-PC3200 Mushkin Black
ATI 9800Pro
Klipsch Pro Media
19" CRT

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[TN] Nathan · ALMIGHTY PWNER! Joined: 14 Feb 2002 Posts: 7406

Vcore is really high, what are the temperatures?
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Ishtim · Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2003 4:00 pm Post subject:

CPU temp 35C at boot 43C light load (Windows IE).
Sys Temp 28C @ boot 31C light load.

Will try to crash it w/ games and repost high load temps.

PS No OC'ing...

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AMD XP 2500+ Barton
Asus A7N8X Deluxe 1.4 (1002.a)
2x 512-PC3200 Mushkin Black
ATI 9800Pro
Klipsch Pro Media
19" CRT

DMW · SirTweaksabit Joined: 16 May 2002 Posts: 457

yeah, if you are not OCing....start by resetting the bios to default settings.
Then adjust the multiplier and FSB if needed to get correct CPU.

One other thing is that you made no mention of a brand name for the RAM you are using now...more generic?

hopefully these modules you are using fall somewhere on the table at the link below. This is supposed to somewhat of an "approved list." Other makers may use the same chips...but you'll have to check yours to verify.

http://usa.asus.com/mb/socketa/a7n8x/A7N8Xqvl.htm

[TN] Nathan · ALMIGHTY PWNER! Joined: 14 Feb 2002 Posts: 7406

Also, maybe drop your vcore to 1.75 and see if it helps.

With those temperatures at idle, I can see you having some temperature issues.
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Ishtim · Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2003 6:54 pm Post subject:

Sorry if I was confusing (the troubled machine is no the one in signature)...

Thanks for responding so quickly on this. Here is where we stand:
1. Components were rather dusty so a cleaning has been done (2yrs old).
2. This machine was purchased as a bundle w / the original 256 RAM module that was determined "BAD" by memtest.
3. Initial BIOS settings were made by assembler and Vcore could have been set high. I say this because I haven't personally gone through settings myself.
4. I noticed "nominal" Vcore from AMD site for the 1800 is 1.75V.
5. Ambient temperature of the room is quite warm (upstairs loft).
6. 2nd RAM module is RMA'd by tommorrow (At local shop).

These are things we are looking into and I well repost as progress is made.
_________________
AMD XP 2500+ Barton
Asus A7N8X Deluxe 1.4 (1002.a)
2x 512-PC3200 Mushkin Black
ATI 9800Pro
Klipsch Pro Media
19" CRT

[TN] Nathan · ALMIGHTY PWNER! Joined: 14 Feb 2002 Posts: 7406

Make sure your heatsink is cleaned for better cooling.

Did the system freeze after time or was it all over the place?
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Ishtim · Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2003 8:48 pm Post subject:

Freezes actually started after the machine was 1.5 years old. After replacing a DVD-ROM drive the crashes went away, at least we thought. CD-ROM was put in its place and then the original RAM strip started acting up. Memtest said it was bad so it was replaced. Since he (he will probably start posting himself in the near future) had the case open I reccommended the dust removal, ewhich he has done today (I'll get him to recheck idle / load temps. His system came with a Thermaltake Volcano (can't rememner the model), so the high Vcore may have been on purpose. OC'ed from the seller??? Not sure, I will see him again in the morning and will discuss what we have gone over today.

Thanks again for all the help!

_________________
AMD XP 2500+ Barton
Asus A7N8X Deluxe 1.4 (1002.a)
2x 512-PC3200 Mushkin Black
ATI 9800Pro
Klipsch Pro Media
19" CRT

DMW · SirTweaksabit Joined: 16 May 2002 Posts: 457

[TN] Nathan · ALMIGHTY PWNER! Joined: 14 Feb 2002 Posts: 7406

Don't ever trust the voltage readings by default on a motherboard.

Manual setting it to 1.75 and see what it results in the bios vcore reading.

For example, the canterwood I am testing now doesn't supply enough voltage for stock conditions.
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DMW · SirTweaksabit Joined: 16 May 2002 Posts: 457

well....that's intel for ya.

[TN] Nathan · ALMIGHTY PWNER! Joined: 14 Feb 2002 Posts: 7406

No, thats not intel's fault, its the motherboard manufacturer.
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DMW · SirTweaksabit Joined: 16 May 2002 Posts: 457

Ishtim,
also....are you sure that you have the most recent release of the bios for that board?
your bios will provide the instructions on memory, voltages, and other aspects....

it appears as though this board recieved little follow-up support.
possibly because of the release of the "+" version.

it might be that it simply cannot take more than one module of the PC2700. Can you obtain a single 512MB stick?

Specifications
Processor AMD Athlon, Athlon XP, Duron
Core Logic AMD-761 Chipset + VIA VT82C686B
BIOS Award/Phoenix BIOS v6.0
Max. FSB 266MHz
Memory 2 x DDR SDRAM PC2100, 1GB max.
Form Factor ATX

Special Features
CPU clock settings are adjustable by BIOS
CPU multiplier settings are adjustable by switch
CPU V-core settings are adjustable by switch
Hardware Monitoring Function provided by VIA
Keyboard Power On (KBPO)
P80P Diagnostic LED
Suspend To RAM (STR)
Wake On Lan (WOL)

you want to make sure that all switches are set according to you parameters.

Ishtim · Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:12 am Post subject:

Checked out dip switches on the mobo. All OK, except Vcore can only be raised in 0.1V increments not lowered (Default is +0.0V). Should we believe what the BIOS is saying about voltages? New RAM trial is today! Cleaning dust from heatsinks & fans lowered temps by 4-6 deg. :)

There's only 2 BIOS for this board the original Phoenix ver. 6 (what we have) and an unsupported BETA version that contains Highpoint v2.32 BIOS code that is not reccommended by the EPOX site.
_________________
AMD XP 2500+ Barton
Asus A7N8X Deluxe 1.4 (1002.a)
2x 512-PC3200 Mushkin Black
ATI 9800Pro
Klipsch Pro Media
19" CRT

DMW · SirTweaksabit Joined: 16 May 2002 Posts: 457

are you trying 2100 or 2700?
with little to no benefit of using 2700 in THAT board. I would just go for the 2100.
occasionally, things just aren't compatible

the bios comment was just a general CYA statement....it kinda sux that they dropped that board so quickly...but then again, it might kinda give a clue on your issues.
weird how EPOX themselves put an unsupported bios release on their website.

Ishtim · Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2003 11:33 am Post subject:

Right now the EPOX mobo runs stable with one 256MB 2100 module. The second module, also 256MB 2100 (unstable, but OK by memtest) is being RMA'd. We will try a 3rd replacement 256MB 2100 stick today, If all else fails I will pull out the 512MB 2700 stick from my Asus board and try it.

The default setting for Vcore @ 1.83 still bugs me... Nominal is 1.75V.
_________________
AMD XP 2500+ Barton
Asus A7N8X Deluxe 1.4 (1002.a)
2x 512-PC3200 Mushkin Black
ATI 9800Pro
Klipsch Pro Media
19" CRT

DMW · SirTweaksabit Joined: 16 May 2002 Posts: 457

if you have the settings to a "normal" selection and the "default cpu" + "default CPU voltages" selected, then that is a problem wth your bios either not detecting the correct CPU or not having the right parameters for the chip....
you could reload the bios and see if it clears up....or just manually set the voltage to the 1.75.

[TN] Nathan · ALMIGHTY PWNER! Joined: 14 Feb 2002 Posts: 7406

A single stick solution is always better than two. Any slight difference between the two can cause instability.

I would recommend a single 512 stick.
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Ishtim · Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2003 9:49 am Post subject:

Got an identical stick from same shipment, now machine runs with 2 256MB sticks. Thanks for the ifo guys!

_________________
AMD XP 2500+ Barton
Asus A7N8X Deluxe 1.4 (1002.a)
2x 512-PC3200 Mushkin Black
ATI 9800Pro
Klipsch Pro Media
19" CRT

DMW · SirTweaksabit Joined: 16 May 2002 Posts: 457

do not forget to address the voltage issue....although performance may only suffer slightly from the heat....the life span of the ship will also be shortened...if you are looking for LONG term usage.