Some Facts on Water Cooling....

archaeic_bloke · Posted: Tue May 10, 2005 8:12 pm Post subject:

i think that what i will do is just simply get the swiftech one, its simple, will work well, by a good brand name.. ill get the AUX PSU and relay kit.., im going to with water cooling anyway so i may as well just get the better one.. a good CPU block is 60 bucks US... so for 150 US more i can get sub zero temps.. then yes please...

what do you guys think.. i think im gonna need a bigger case than the thermtake tsunami dream.. its getting pretty packed with all my stuff now.. and when i add water cooling man.. it`ll be a mess..lol
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fussnfeathers · Lord of the Tweak Joined: 14 Dec 2004 Posts: 2763

Don't forget to buy the insulating kits from Swiftech.....the ones that go around the CPU and bracket. You'll need those.
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archaeic_bloke · Posted: Wed May 11, 2005 9:58 am Post subject:

huh? reading the website it says it comes with this:
"Assembly, including housing, copper plate, installation hardware, 1/2" barb fittings, all gaskets, Arctic Alumina thermal compound, instructions"

wouldnt all gaskets mean the insulation thing ??
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fussnfeathers · Lord of the Tweak Joined: 14 Dec 2004 Posts: 2763

archaeic_bloke · Posted: Wed May 11, 2005 1:25 pm Post subject:

ahh i see what youi mean, but the ones on frozen cpu are for wintsch... do u know where i could get some for the swiftech one?? lol sorry for keep buggin ya.. thanks alot
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fussnfeathers · Lord of the Tweak Joined: 14 Dec 2004 Posts: 2763

Click on the Swiftech you want, then look on the side for the Backing Plate and Frame. Each one has a different bracket.
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archaeic_bloke · Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 1:55 am Post subject:

k maybe im just dumb.. im sorry but i really cant see it.. lol maybe u could post the full link to it? or like spell it out, sorry man i must be blind, thanks
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fussnfeathers · Lord of the Tweak Joined: 14 Dec 2004 Posts: 2763

Nevermind.........I checked Swiftech's site, they include the mounting hardware now. It's only the coolers for older model AMD's that don't come with the hardware..........

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Noxide · Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 10:12 am Post subject:

i see what you mean FnF. I applied some heat to the TECs cold side and whatched the AMP draw go up fast on my multi-meter! WinXP Crashed after 10min. I used my wifes hair iron on a 1/4inch copper plate i had. Back to the drawing board.
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archaeic_bloke · Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 11:44 am Post subject:

ha, awesome, i knew swiftech did..lol yah man yuour gonna have to get an AUX PSU..
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Silicon Skum · Posted: Fri May 13, 2005 6:42 am Post subject:

I've been using peltier coolers for years, I've found the best way to use them is to cool a water block / pump setup (the TEC replaces the radiator for the system). The problem with using pelts (as FNF and others have pointed out) is the fact the CP will DROP in temp as soon as the load on the CPU is reduced. I Have actually run a CPU at full load at -40C, this was a REAL pain to sort out, condensation is the least of your worries, ICE is the main problem, also damage to the CPU and Peltier element occuring if the CPU was to go idle, the temperature would drop WELL below safe levels ( I have hit -78degC in a test, and damaged the Peltier BADLY!). Also, if you plan to use a Peltier element to cool a CPU direct, you will need to add a fairly thick copper or aluminium plate between the CPU die and the TEC. This is used to smooth out the temperature, TECs tend to fluctuate rapidly in temperature, also a TEC will ONLY cool what it is in contact with, so if the die of the CPU is only in contact with the centre of the TEC, the rest of the TEC surface area will NOT be cooling anything. The TEC MUST be used in combination with metal plate to ensure ALL of the heat is transfered away from the CPU, as the TEC is made from a ceramic plate on each side of a Bismoth Teluride PNP juction matrix, and ceramic is VERY poor at conducting heat. TECs cool over the ENTIRE surface, so you would SERIOUSLY overheat your CPU if you just placed the TEC in contact with the CPU with no metal plate.

The Wattage rating of a Peltier is rated for the entire surface area, and is also the MAX watage the the TEC can handle, if your CPU puts out more than the TEC can handle, it **WILL** get VERY hot. Result - dead CPU!
Also remember a TEC cannot transfer ANY heat when it has NO POWER! (I've seen the results when that happens)

Peltier elements also GENERATE heat when a voltage is applied, as well as the heat they are conducting from the source, so you have to take that in to account. A TEC can only cool to about 21degrees below the HOT side of the junction, so if the hot side of the TEC is too hot you will have a HOT CPU! To cool a Peltier in a computer, you NEED a really HUGE heatsink and fan or possibly a large heatpipe cooler, to be able to get the heat away from the hot side efficiently.

The only safe way for a newbie to use peltiers is to use a few lower power units to replace the radiator in a water cooling setup, you can even get reslts as good as the vapor phase refridgeration units available. Obviously though you have to watch for condensation and ice build up when running below ambient temperature. A single 72W peltier is *almost* enough to fully cool a water based cooling setup to ambient temperature, it really depends on the heat output of the CPU and if you are overclocking or not.
For my water cooling setup I use a single 172W 24V TEC @ 18V 10A (this is the most efficient voltage and ampage for this TEC). The TEC is mounted to another waterblock ( much MORE SURFACE AREA than normal) connected in line with the water block on the CPU and feeds chilled water directly TO the CPU waterblock. The other side of the Peltier in my setup is connected to a MASSIVE heatsink, which is ONLY JUST strong enough to cool it (the heatsink is WAY to hot to touch!)

Providing power for the Peltier is my biggest problem, I have modified 2 400W ATX PSUs to run in series to provide the 18V at 10A and the power for cooling fans.

**VERY dangerous to mess with switch mode PSUs unless you know what you are doing!!!!**

I know of one guy who had so many Peltiers cooling his QUAD XEON number cruncher that he had to use a modified ARC WELDER(!) to provide enough current to power the TECs!

Although there is a lot of potential problems, TEC cooling can be done quite safely and easy, you just need to understand the basics. TEC cooling can be a GREAT way to cool a system for the MOTHER of all overclocks, or a great way to toast a CPU. It all depends on how it is setup.

If anyone is thinking about running with pelter cooling setups, just ask me for any advice or help if you want to. I have been using peltier cooling for 6 years, so I have learned qite a lot of the problems and solutions to using TEC cooling. Very Happy

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archaeic_bloke · Posted: Fri May 13, 2005 11:05 am Post subject:

what problem Dr. peltier do u see with my setup of the swiftech MCW500x (forget the number) but for A64 s939 cpus, i will get the AUX PSU reccomneded for it from swiftech and the relay kit comes with it, and the peltier is sandwiched between a copper block (for cpu) and a water cooling block, (to move heat away from peltier) the swiftech peltier/waterblock design also includes all of the stuff to prevent condensation. check it out on their website.. what do u htink of this>?
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My setupd:
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Silicon Skum · Posted: Fri May 13, 2005 5:48 pm Post subject:

archaeic_bloke · Posted: Fri May 13, 2005 6:05 pm Post subject:

thanks.. the radiator i plan on using is the dangerden extreme II (2x120 fans tall)
and i currently have the a64 s939 3000+ but will be up grding to the FX-57 and maybe 59. i do intend on OC'ing but nothing super intense, just enough to turn (for example not real numbers) a 200 dollar proc into a 600$ one..

, like i did with my 3000+
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My setupd:
OCZ DDR600 EL Platinum extreme edition
DFI lanparty UT SLI-DR eXpert
Athlon 64 3000+
PSU Thermaltake 680w
Armor case
Logitech Lx700
WD -SATA 37G 10k + 250G SATA Caviar SE16
Plextor PX716SA
XFX GeForce 7800 GT