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eli
SirTweaksabit
Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Posts: 256
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 Posted: Mon May 19, 2003 8:11 pm Post subject: Need Water Cooling |
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Ok guys, I am officially getting a water cooler. I just need to know what kind.... I was thinking about the Koolance Exos, one of those Swiftech systems, or maybe a dangerden system. Any ideas? I just OC'd my barton 2500+ to 2.1Ghz, and under load, its almost near 60C with my SLK-800. I have the voltage at 1.750, and I want to up it to 1.850, I just need a better cooling solution. I was thinking about one of those Promoteis, but there a little too expensive. My budget is under $400.
Any Ideas? |
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2003 8:11 pm Post subject: Advertisement |
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dpauto
TweakNOOB
Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Posts: 48
Location: phoenix ,az
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2003 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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if you can send alittle more try this out .http://www.coolpc.com.au/shop/index.html?prod=308
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eli
SirTweaksabit
Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Posts: 256
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2003 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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I need advice on which water cooling system to get, not where to buy it.
But, thanks anyways  |
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DMW
SirTweaksabit
Joined: 16 May 2002
Posts: 457
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2003 3:06 am Post subject: |
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damn...bitten by the bug...and there's no bottom to his wallet.
just out of curiosity....is it a performance boost you are going for? or just the rig add-on you want?
how far did you get the 2500 OCed to? what voltage? etc... |
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eli
SirTweaksabit
Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Posts: 256
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2003 8:56 am Post subject: |
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No bottom to my wallet hehe, I think there is. I just work really hard. My parents dont pay for anything. I overclock my Barton 2500+ to 2.1Ghz, I am using an SLK-800A with a panaflo fan. When its really humid and hot outside, my temps uder full load when running Prime95 get close to 60C. I want to overclock to 2.3Ghz: 11.5X200, and have slightly better temps. Right now I am running at 1.750 Volts, I can run Prime 95 for 6 hours. I want to run it for a couple of days, but I really dont have any stabability problems. I got 12704 on 3DMark10 SE. and I plan to get more then you guys when I get my water cooling!!!! My SLK-800A is quite nice, its just I need a little more juice, to get to 2.3Ghz without going over 60C under full load. I will probably have to tun it at 1.85 volts then, so the temps will rise quite a bit. I think I just might get the parts seperate instead of getting one system, because the temps dont seem satisfactory if I were to get a system like the exos.
O, and were you overclocking that XP 2000+?
thanks guys! I'll keep you informed to how it is going |
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DMW
SirTweaksabit
Joined: 16 May 2002
Posts: 457
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2003 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I overclock my Barton 2500+ to 2.1Ghz, I am using an SLK-800A with a panaflo fan. When its really humid and hot outside, my temps uder full load when running Prime95 get close to 60C. |
first, no A/C in the house?...it's possible, as in my case...but I live in MI. and so far the high temp this year has been about 70F.
second, you find Prime95 to be something you run alot? It's a proram designed to make your machine work hard and sweat a little. 85% of everything else out there will not produce that level of stress and your CPU will not see those type of temps. You already stated that you do not play games....so what other software do you use that creates this level of stress for you?
Prime95 from my understanding is a stress tool and nothing else. Who cares if you can run it for days.
As for the temps...what are you using for temp readings? IF it's some software application and not a harware type device, then it uses the diode built into the MOBO which lies under the CPU....this has always been an issue and is notorious for reading higher than actual temps. As for the 60C temp....critical is about 90C, so a shutdown should be considered around 70C. But if the diode is used then you do not know the core temp.
| Quote: | | I got 12704 on 3DMark10 SE. and I plan to get more |
have you changed the fan on your GF4 card yet? Or even tried to OC it separately?
| Quote: | | My SLK-800A is quite nice, its just I need a little more juice, to get to 2.3Ghz without going over 60C under full load. I will probably have to tun it at 1.85 volts then, so the temps will rise quite a bit. I think I just might get the parts seperate instead of getting one system, because the temps dont seem satisfactory if I were to get a system like the exos |
if you want 2.3 then try a setting like 11x210 @ 1.8V and up the DDR voltage as well. Lock the PCI and AGP and reduce the memory timimg a smidge.
People hit your 2.1GHz with an XP2100!!! and that's air cooled!
1.85V is not "too" high.....but I would go no further on an air cooled chip.
As for "satisfacory" temps on sytems like the EXOS....I can almost say with absolute impunity, that ANY water cooling setup is better than air cooling alone. If the temps weren't satisfactory....those items wouldn't last as long on the market as they do.
wait a month or so and just get the 3000Barton.... my .02
here are some alternatives... 
http://www.halfbakery.com/idea/CPU_20Cooling#1031062716 |
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eli
SirTweaksabit
Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Posts: 256
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2003 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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thanks for all the info DMW. The only point of overclocking for me, is to get the performance of a 3000+, and not have to pay that much. I dont want to put it up to 2.3Ghz due to temps. About the temps source. I am using the bios. That seems to be much more reliable then the Asus pc probe. I figured that the Asus pc probe says the cpu temps are 10C under then what the bios says. So I just use the probe, and pretend that the temps are 10C higher. I know even the BIOS isnt that reliable, and I will be getting a digidoc pretty soon. Till then I just have to wing it. Prime95 is a program that writes intense instructions for your cpu and ram. Its a good cpu load tester, and a stabability tester. I noticed that when I overclocked my cpu, and had it at stock voltage, it went for about 1 min and then came up with an error. Then I uped the voltage to 1.750, and it ran for 6 hours or so. Its a nice program to stress your CPU, and test for reliability.
O, and I never said I didnt play any games. I play some: warcraft 3 counter-strike, and soon to be medal of honor. I just dont waste my time and get addicted to them like many other people out there. I havent had any instabability issues.
Right now I dont have A/C running, but yes, we do have it when needed. and what did you say about locked PCI and AGP??? how would overclocking your cpu effect that???
Thank you very much for all the help DMW! Much appreciated! |
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DMW
SirTweaksabit
Joined: 16 May 2002
Posts: 457
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| Posted: Wed May 21, 2003 5:57 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | About the temps source. I am using the bios. That seems to be much more reliable then the Asus pc probe. I figured that the Asus pc probe says the cpu temps are 10C under then what the bios says. So I just use the probe, and pretend that the temps are 10C higher. I know even the BIOS isnt that reliable, and I will be getting a digidoc pretty soon. |
yeah...95% of the software generated temps are going to be using the bios for their source of temps.
My digidoc reads about a 10C difference as well.....lower. Remeber that the diode used for obtaining the temp readings is located inside the socket under the CPU...where ther is no ventillation.
I cannot stress how important it is to have the thermal paste applied in the proper amount. Thinner than paper it should be!
Lapping the HSF can also cut a degree or two...depending on the unit....there are just so many factors.
| Quote: | | Its a good cpu load tester, and a stabability tester. I noticed that when I overclocked my cpu, and had it at stock voltage, it went for about 1 min and then came up with an error. Then I uped the voltage to 1.750, and it ran for 6 hours or so. |
I admit that a lot of people use Prime95...but it isn't meant to be done regularly either. Only to establish a baseline for comparing systems to each other.
Would you buy a car that you know will go 150MPH, as others have told you it will? Of course you might....but would you continue to do it day after day just to make sure that it CAN do it ? If so, remind me not to ride with you (when you're old enuf to drive ) My point is, that once you have proven capability, why cause undo stress on your equipment? It will not extend the life of, or even guarantee that some part will not fail an hour later.
| Quote: | | Its a nice program to stress your CPU, and test for reliability. |
You wan test for reliablity? Run your OS and games, watch videos, and join the D2OL team...do all of this without crashing on a daily basis and there is no need for Prime95.
Your Barton should easily run @ 2.3 to 2.5GHz(about) with a good air cooling setup.
There is more to to that CPU if you keep digging!
By locking the AGP & PCI you effectively eliminate the drawbacks to lessor designed harware that was meant for the slower buses. This allows for independant clocking and allows good RAM and an unlocked CPU to run better.
I do not have my A7N8X yet, so exactly how to lock the CPI and AGP frequencies, I cannot say...but I know that it has been discussed in several forums on this issue.
BTW, I do believe that all Athlon XP CPUs based on the Thoroughbred core (from 1700+ on) are unlocked when they leave the factory.
The Barton core should be similar.
You already are getting 15% more CPU than you paid for...not a bad deal.
As for thermal failure... 90C is the "critcal" temp for AMD's latest CPUs. Thermal circuitry in the MOBO (as guidelines from AMD dictate) will shut down your system at 85C. (that is the whole reason that thermal diode is down there)
If there are no stabilty issues, then you aren't Tweaking hard enuf! |
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eli
SirTweaksabit
Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Posts: 256
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| Posted: Wed May 21, 2003 7:37 am Post subject: |
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Hmmm. So whats your suggestions about the temps? should I get a digidoc or something? I'd really like to see the real temps! and I'd also like to see the RPM's of my fans, so maybe that would be something to get.
About the thermal paste, I know its very important, and that stuff just gives me the shivers. I think I might of put just a tad to much. I mean its still running at good temps, I just think It would run a lot better, If I applied a little less. So, Would it be that hard just to clean of the heatsink and the cpu, and just apply some more in a better way? and how should that be done? I hear rubbing alchohol and Q-tips can to the trick, but what if it got anywhere else? would it hert to use the rubbing alchohol there?
Thanks |
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eli
SirTweaksabit
Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Posts: 256
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| Posted: Wed May 21, 2003 7:39 am Post subject: |
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I know there is more to my cpu if I keep digging, its just without a proper thermal sensor, it can be diffecult.
well, I think I'll get a water cooling system. Its both good practice, and good cooling.
thanks |
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DMW
SirTweaksabit
Joined: 16 May 2002
Posts: 457
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| Posted: Thu May 22, 2003 1:00 am Post subject: |
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What makes you think 2.3GHz is in the cards for you? You need to run that thing out (NOT USING PRIME95) as far as you can and be stable. Once you have determined that HEAT is keeping you back...then you move forward.
Personally, I like to smack the person that got you on the "if I can't run Prime95 torture test for week straight, then I need something better" bandwagon.
You have given a pretty clear picture of your experiences, capabilities and the uses you have for your PC....you have no reason think that the testing you have done indicates the potential for your setup.
as far as
| Quote: | | well, I think I'll get a water cooling system. Its both good practice, and good cooling. |
is concerned...it is a good cooling, but all I am going to say is...have a little patience and "listen" to (don't just read) the advice the people here are offering. The point of a forum is to discuss this stuff and share thoughts and EXPERIENCES....for those who lack the latter, it's how to avoid wasted time and money.
Show us ya got more sense than cents... |
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DMW
SirTweaksabit
Joined: 16 May 2002
Posts: 457
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[TN] Nathan
ALMIGHTY PWNER!
Joined: 14 Feb 2002
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eli
SirTweaksabit
Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Posts: 256
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| Posted: Sun May 25, 2003 11:36 am Post subject: |
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Heat is the only thing stopping me DMW. But I guess I wont know until I get a good temp sensor. when I get that, I will get the right temps, and might be able to overclock more, and not even need water cooling. As for stabability, I think your right about that. Just do what you do, and if there is no stabability issues, then your set.
Nathan, about that corsair water cooling system. It looks pretty nice, the only problem is its external. I dont like to have external thing. It just looks "flakey" to me atleast. I have all the parts I want, and I have researched it quite a bit. Heres the current list:
1. Swiftech MCW5000
2. Swiftech MCW50
3. Tygon 1/2" tubing
4. D-Tek pro rad with shroud
5. Eheim 1250 pump
6. Some sort of reserver, dont know yet
7. Delta 120mm fan
I will be doing this all with a Dremel. I have some cases to practice on other then mine, so it shouldnt me a problem learning
That looks pretty good to me, what about you?
thanks |
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DMW
SirTweaksabit
Joined: 16 May 2002
Posts: 457
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| Posted: Sun May 25, 2003 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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that's the way....just take it day by day...but rest assured, that if you have a quatliy cooler now....1.75V will not create the heat that may or may not be there.
what is the core voltage stamped on the die? do you recall? |
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eli
SirTweaksabit
Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Posts: 256
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| Posted: Sun May 25, 2003 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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| When I first changed the Volatage, I think it was at 1.65, or something like that |
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[TN] Nathan
ALMIGHTY PWNER!
Joined: 14 Feb 2002
Posts: 7406
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| Posted: Sun May 25, 2003 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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I think personally that one of the external units is a great way to ENTER the watercooling genre. And if you want to upgrade after a while, you can sell it on ebay and upgrade.
Remember, one drop of water on your motherboard will blow your whole system. Do NOT take watercooling lightly and make sure you do it right the first time. There is no trial and error, you make an error, and it will cost you hundreds of dollars.
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eli
SirTweaksabit
Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Posts: 256
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| Posted: Sun May 25, 2003 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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Yes I am aware of that Nathan. External units have just as much of a chance to drip water as the internal units. I am not taking this lightly, its just I think I am doing this whole thing right, and I feel confident in my self. I will test it for 24 hours, and then attach the stuff. I just dont think any thing is going to go wrong. I know what to get and all, and how hard can it really be? just make sure everything is nice a tight, bleed the system properly, and get some clamps. How would it leak?
thanks man! |
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