Building my first computer. Let's make it the best it can be

[Dremgragen]

Hey guys,

Thank you for reading my post. I feel like building a new computer. The computer I'm using now is getting a little outdated and doesn't agree with XP as well as it should, so I want to have a new computer and restore this to it's factory Win98 and just use it for word processing and changing settings on my car stereo DSP.

It's use: I like to surf the net daily, reading car audio forums and chatting with people on AIM (my name is Dremgragen on it too -you can message me anytime). I play a few MMORPGs and I'm really excited about the new Star Wars Galaxies (a strong reason for wanting the new computer!). The other game I play often is Ultima Online. I also download movies and rent DVDs occasionally, so I'd like flawless multimedia performance if I can get it.

I just want to build it myself so I know what I am getting is quality. I looked over Dell & Gateway computers, but they don't really tell you enough about the nitty-gritty... and they give you a lot of junk you don't want or need. They cut a few corners I don't want to cut also. So, would you be so kind as to help me build my first computer?

I'm pretty good at using and fixing simple problems with the using-end of computers. I've had a computer to play on since I was about 8 years old (22 now) starting with an old Amiga, then an Amiga 2000, next a 486 66 MHz, and then a 200 MHz Pentium, and now this 650 MHz P3 laptop. So what I'm saying is I'm very familiar with using computers and I'm a quick learner. So, although this is my first building experience, I have confidence in myself to get it done with a mild amount of assistance from you more experienced builders out there. I just don't want anyone to think I'm incapable because I don't think it will be that hard. It can't be much harder than setting up an ellaborate stereo system in a car, which is my main hobby.

Let me outline what I can think of that I have to buy:
Case
Power Supply
Motherboard
CPU
Hard Drive
DVD-ROM Drive
System Memory
Video Card (A highschool acquaintence is upgrading to the AIW 9800 pro so he's going to sell me his AIW 9700 Pro for ~$200) Score.
Monitor

And that's about all I can think of off the top of my head. I have a cordless mouse/keyboard combo (Logitech) that I will use initially. After the computer is done I'll worry about a cooler keyboard/mouse combo (I want one of those new EL keyboards... and a MS Optical blue mouse to match). I also figure that I can do the same for the sound card... upgrade later to Audigy or Audigy 2. For now I'll just use onboard since I haven't seen a MB yet that doesn't come with onboard sound. I have an external CD Burner (TDK 48x/16x/48x) that I will be able to use with the new computer as well, which my reason for choosing to get a DVD-ROM drive for the computer.

Budget: ~$1200-$1500 for the core computer (not counting my later sound card, keyboard, mouse, etc) I would like to keep it closer to $1200 than $1500 if possible.

I'm set on Intel since it seems to be the better Multimedia performer. I've been browsing the current prices, and I'm thinking 2.4 GHz to 2.6 GHz for the CPU, retail for the heatsink & warranty.

For motherboards I've been staring at the Soyo SY-P4X400 Ultra Platinum. It's cheap for all the things it does. I hear of new 800 MHz FSB speeds coming, but I don't see any CPUs or MBs yet... think we'll have any winners within the next 2 weeks?

Memory: I'm pretty much sold on Corsair. With the Soyo SY-P4X400 UP I'm thinking (based on the review here) that I'll just get the Corsair XMS PC2700LL 512 MB RAM. Can I even overclock this RAM with this MB? I'd appreciate other good suggestions for motherboards.

Is Serial ATA worth the 40-gig dip? (I say 40-gig dip because you can get a regular IDE ATA that has 40 gigs more for the same price as a Serial ATA). I'm set on Seagate Barracudas for their quietness and my disliking of WD. I had 2 of my 3 HDD's crash on me on that 200 MHz Pentium I previously had, all 3 were WD. Maybe they're better now, but I'll just go with Seagate, no problem.

How about monitors? CRT is the way to go for great graphics, right? I'd rather do CRT for the cost factor in my budget anyway. 19" sounds nice. Should I get name brand like Viewsonic over the internet and worry about it being broken in shipping or settle for a cheap KDS unit at Wal-Mart that has decent specs and 3-year, take it to Wal-Mart for exchange, warranty?

I think those are all my questions for now. Have a little fun with what I've outlined and see what YOU would buy if you were in my position. I appreicate you taking the time to read this and help me in my research for the best my money can buy.

[Google]

[zomicon]

Hi Dremgragen,

Funny thing here. I am in a very similar situation. I have an old PII, 450 that I really need to upgrade because I do pretty processor intensive digital music and my old system just isn't cutting it. I think we could bounce a few ideas off eachother here! I am looking at keeping my system around $1000 not including monitor (I will probably buy a 17" LCD). My goals are rock solid system stability, lots of memory for audio samples, enough processing power to crunch a bunch of virtual synths and effects at once, superfast disk write speeds for digital recording, spdif for digital audio out, enough video power to drive two monitors without touching the CPU and to play the occasional game...and finally, quiet, Quiet, QUIET!. Here is what I have come up with so far. The prices are ballpark figures from one online vendor:

Mobo:

<b>Soyo P4X400 Dragon Ultra Platinum</b> @ $158. I am leaning toward the Soyo because of Raid support (which I want for better audio recording), and all the bundled stuff. My only concern is the Via Chipset, which I know nothing about and am thus concerned about stability. This mobo has been around for a while though, so I am not that worried. The only other things the soyo doesn't have are Serial ATA (a possibility for fast harddrive, although I don't know that much about it) and Firewire.

Other option: <b>Asus P4PE/GBL </b>@ $168 Similar in features to the Soyo but without all the pimpy extras. Adds Serial ATA capability, Firewire, Gigabit Lan (which I probably won't use). Only 4X AGP (which probably isn't a big deal for me). The Asus uses the Intel 845PE chipset, which is late generation, well tested, and solid; plus Asus is known as the best Mobo maker....Tough decision here.

Processor:
<b> P4 2.53 Mhz, 533</b> @ $219 This seems to be the most bang for the bug. Upping to the 2.8 Mhz adds $100 and the 3.0 Mhz adds about $200..not worth it.

Memory:
1 Gig. Don't know what brand yet. Probably, Samsung, Crucial or Corsair DDR333. From everything I have read the DDR400 just ain't worth it. We'll figure $150-$300.

Floppy:
<b>Mitsumi Floppy</B> @ $10. I haven't used a floppy in a long time, but who knows? and its only 10 bucks.

Hard Drives:
2X80 gigs @ $240 - $280

Another tough choice. I haven't decided if the Raid is worth it. I imagine the Serial ATA would provide the necessary write speed for multitrack digital audio, but I need to research this more. I am also not sure about the performance differience between Serial ATA and UATA133. Anyone help me here? Also, many Audio gurus suggest keeping your OS and program files on a separate drive from your Audio files. So here are some options, in their order of probability:

1. 80G Seagate Barracuda Serial ATA @ $139 for Audio files.
2. 80G Maxtor Ultra series UATA133 @ $119 for OS.

At this point I am not sure. I really like the quietness and stability of the Seagate...

Video Card:
$75-180:
Again not sure. I am not looking to get the latest and greatest video card. I don't need 200 fps. I just want to drive two displays and to be able new generation games with good graphics. I need more research here, but here are a few options at 3 price points.

Budget: Chaintech GeForce4 MX440 64Mb DDR TV/DVI (8x AGP) @ $75
Moderate: Asus V9520-TD GeForce 5200 128mb DDR TV/DVI @ $108
Hi-Moderate: Asus V9280-TD GeForce 4Ti 4200 128Mb DDR TV/DVI @ 165

I know nothing about the ATI cards and am a bit confused by all their offerings, can you suggest good ATI cards at these price points?

Audio
$0

I have a Tascam US-420 mixer/audio interface with great monitors and an amp. I'll use these for Audio production and the onboard Audio for Games and general use.

Optical Drive:
$45-$245
I already have an external 48x CD-RW, so I'll either get a DVD ROM or DVD RW drive:

1. LiteOn 16x DVD ROM Black @ $45
2. TDK Indi DVD420n DVD RW Black(4x write) @ $275

Modem:
$15
Just in case I need to dial up on occasion.

Case:

Nikai DL2 Silver Mid-Tower w/ 350w power supply @ $50.
No biggy here, I like the sleek, non-flashy look of this steel case.

OS:
MickeySoft XP Pro OEM @ $150
The only reason I am going with XP Pro is that I like the Remote Desktop feature.

Keys and Mouse:
Logitech Cordless Freedom Pro Keyboard and Mouse @ $92.
I like the Ergonomic keyboards and no cords!

<b>Totals:</B>

Low End: $1154 (cheapest memory, budget video card, Maxtor drives, DVD)
High End: $1774 (best memory, solid video card, Seagate Drives, DVD RW)

Hmmm...I'll have to shave a few bucks.

Any thoughts, suggestions?

Thanks,

Zomicon

[zomicon]

One more thing.... I just read a review of the Soyo motherboard, and apparently it doesn't do too well with overclocking because of the chipset (I think). Not really something I am that interested in anyway, but if you are really into overclocking, you might want to look for a different mobo.

[Dremgragen]

Hi Zomicon.

I happened to be online, writing a reply to this post, complaining about how no one has replied -when you posted this reply, so I am right on top of it. :)

Anyway I think I have decided on a complete system. I may make a few mild changes, but overall I think I'm pretty much done. Here's my list:

Motherboard. ABIT IC7 Max2 It's the 800FSB replacement to the IT7 Max2. This board features Dual DDR400, AGP Pro (8x), Dual Serial ATA, and nice Overclocking options. At first I wasn't interested in overclocking, but the more I read about it, the more it made me want to try it. Why not squeeze the most performance out of your dollar? I'm a nerd, I like to tweak stuff and play with electronics. I'm up to it. This board is really cheap too. $152 from Googlegear. Sold. Here's a link for your viewing enjoyment. http://www.abit-usa.com/news/2003/20030411.php

CPU. Intel P4 2.4 Ghz (533 MHz FSB). I can't see paying for a 2.8 GHz + speed processor with HT or 800 MHz FSB just yet, so I'll settle for the 2.4b. It's got some serious overclockability and will more than keep up with the rest of the gear I'm going to have. A faster processor, FSB, and HT would all help, but the 2.4b will work excellent for it's $163 (Retail box w/Heatsink & Fan) pricetag from Newegg.com You're paying $56 more for .13 GHz increase Zomicon? I wouldn't.

Video Card. The used AIW 9700 Pro. If that falls through I'll either go with an AIW 9500 Pro (or the new AIW 9200 Pro, depending on which as better overall performance) OR I'll buck-up and just get a new AIW 9700 Pro. If they come out with the AIW 9800 Pro in time, then that instead. $200 from kid, or $200-$400, from Newegg.com most likely.

Memory. 2 Corsair XMS Low-Latency PC3200LLPT 256MB modules (gotta have two modules to make use of the Dual DDR interface) I think 512 MB of RAM will be enough, for awhile anyway. RAM is easy to upgrade (and will only get cheaper). I think that so far, the DDR 400 isn't as successful as the DDR333 memory only because the chipsets fail to fully utilize their capability. I'm going to have faith in this ABIT w/875P and go with the DDR400. $165 Newegg.com

Power Supply. Antec 350W Power w/ dual fans $47 Newegg.com

DVD ROM. Lite-On 16x DVD (Black) minus volume & headphone jack controls. $44 (It's $5 more than the one with the controls, but this one has free shipping, the other one costs $5 shipping - LOL - I like the cleaner look myself.) from? Newegg.com

Sony FDD (black) $7.50 Newegg.com

Case. Chenbro Genie. Black. I'm going to mod it to have a second intake fan on the side of the case, blowing across the video card (cause it will be overclocked and running a little hot). It has HDD storage at the top of the case, away from everything else, with one of the exhaust fans up there to pull the hot air generated from the HDDs out of the case. Large case, plenty of storage, and it's cheap at $70 plus shipping from Newegg.com

HDD. This is where I'm the most undecided. Seagate drives are supposted to be very quiet and among the best, so I'm going to give the Barracudas a shot. I just can't decide if I want to try the Serial ATA with the supposedly faster speeds and easier connection OR the tried and true EIDE ATA 100 drive. I'll go with the 120 gig EIDE for the 8MB cache or the 80 gig SATA drive. I read the reviews on Newegg of the two drives. 100% of the reviews for the EIDE drive were 5-star ratings. The average was 2 or 3 stars for the SATA drive. A couple people gave it 5 stars, some gave it only 2 stars. They complained about heat and loudness, and one even complained that it wasn't any faster. I've heard Barracuda drives have a Quiet vs. Performance option, but I don't know if that applies to the SATA drives and just the EIDE, or if it applies to both. Seagate's site doesn't seem to mention the option. Anyway, either drive (120 gig EIDE / 80 gig SATA) is around $140 on Newegg.com

Monitor. Viewsonic G90F 19" Trinitron. My monitor won't be black to match the case, but oh well. I wanted one with good specs and a reliable name. The specs are as follows:
1600 x 1200 @ 77 Hz
1280 x 1024 @ 89 Hz
1024 x 768 @ 118 Hz
$239 includes shipping from Newegg.com (I'm thankful for that on a 48 lb monitor!)

That totals $1223 (if I choose EIDE 120-gig drive) plus any shipping charges.

Onboard sound will do for now.

[Dremgragen]

Unless I'm mistaken, the ABIT I've chosen does everything your boards do -and more -cheaper. Click that link and have a look. It seemed almost too good to be true when I saw the price. What I really like is that they made the IC7 Max2 and the IC7-G Max2... with -G adding the Gigabit LAN that I don't think I need, nor is worth the extra money.

[[TN] Nathan]

Do your shopping at www.googlegear.com or www.newegg.com, best prices around.

Motherboard:

AMD: some of the ECS boards are really cheap and stable
Intel: Anything recent with a Intel chipset for stability. DDR333 845 chipset

CPU:

Go with a 2.4Ghz 533Mhz FSB or if your get an AMD, dont go for the latest processor. XP 2000+-XP2400+ should do fine. Going AMD will save you money also.

Harddrive:

Dont go too big, it will be just a waste of money. I persoanlly use a 30gig drive and its only at 25% capacity.

Ram:

DDR333 is the way to go. Samsung, Micron or Crucial will be perfect, you won't have to go with expensive ram like Corsair's for a stock rig.
_________________
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www.Tweaknews.net
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[zomicon]

Drem,

That sounds like a great system, and your mobo suggestion sounds like the way to go. Is the abit IC-7 using the new intel 875 chipset? My only concern would be any stability issues with a new chipset, but I have heard nothing but good things about the IT-7, so hopefully its big brother is better.

Also, you are probably right about the 2.4 vs. 2.53 processors. I am moving in two weeks, so I probably won't get around to building for another month, so I'll wait and see if there are any price drops then.

Also, most people seem to prefer the ATI cards, but I don't know much about them and I just don't want to spend $200-400 on a video card for a system geared towards Audio. Are there any mainstream or low-budg ATI cards with decent performance?

Lastly, any other tweakers out there...I don't know much about cases, but I am looking for one that is very quiet. i.e. adequate cooling but done very quietly, and that insulates noise from the processor and hard drives. ANy suggestions fellow tweakers?

Good luck Drem and let me know how it goes!

[Dremgragen]

Hello again Zomicon, good to hear from you.

The ABIT IC7 is still a great choice, but I found yet another board. MSI apparently accidentally released some of their 865P chipset motherboard a month earlier than they were supposed to. They're on Newegg.com right now for $105. They have all the main features of the ABIT IC7 like 800 FSB, Dual DDR, Serial ATA... the parts I see missing are RAID, no ethernet (I can buy a cheap Intel card for that), and the sound isn't as good. I don't care much about how good the onboard sound is because I will eventually upgrade to Audigy 2 anyway. I doubt I'll ever use RAID either. The performance boost would be better if I did a RAID 0, but the risks of harddrive failure double (two drives to worry about instead of one). For $105 plus about $32 for the Intel NIC, that's cheaper than the ABIT. The MSI 875P chipset board is said to be the overclocker's dream with adjustments as high as 3.3V for RAM and 2.3V for the CPU. That's nuts. I am assuming that this board is the same, just that it's lacking those other extras. There's not a lot of info about it on Newegg, and MSI's site says nothing about it (cause it's not supposed to be out yet). So I just decided to order it. If it's not what I wanted it to be, I'll just put it on eBay and get either the ABIT or maybe the MSI 875P. The MSI 875P board got a review on... one site (there's a link of the review off Anandtech.com I think) that gave the board 5 out of 5 stars, saying it's perfect if you can swallow the cost. Newegg prices it at $197, but it comes with a lotta stuff, you really get your money's worth (it's out of stock though).

Yes, if you're not going to build this computer for another month, by all means wait. Then the mainstream 865P chipset boards should be out, and will, like the MSI board, be more affordable high-speed motherboards for us to use.

Most people prefer the ATI cards because they've surpassed Nvidia, who is sitting on their carcasses, letting ATI reign supreme. Maybe things will change when they get their new drivers out, but right now ATI is the way to go. I think Nathan here on tweaknews is supposed to review a 9200 Pro soon. Look around the internet for some reviews on the various ATI cards and see if there's a cheaper one that has good enough performance for you. I'd be willing to bet that if you game only occasionally, you'd be perfectly happy with the 9000 Pro (or the 9200 Pro, the 9200 is this year's version of the 9000. The 9600 -this year's 9500, isn't really as good overall as the 9500 is though it can whip out better scores on AA, so make sure you look at the differences in tests and apply them to what you are going to be using your computer for).

And about the case. I can't help much, but from what I gather... having more, small fans is better than having a few large ones. Having more fans and running them slower is better for sound than having one or two running at full speed. If quiet is super important, Seagate seems to have the quietest drives. If you're willing to take the performance hit, the 5400 RPM drives will be quieter than the 7200 RPM drives as well. Alternately, if a fast harddrive is needed for your application, you could try the new Serial ATA... though they only come in large size (80 GB or 120 GB) and are more expensive than the EIDE drives.

I changed my decision on my monitor too (and ordered my new decision, so this is it!). I chose an NEC 19". The model number escapes me at the moment... let me look. Ha! They raised the price $10. It's now $219. I paid $209. :) Anyway, model is FE990-BK. Aperture grille pitch: .20mm horizontal, .24mm diagonal. 1792 x 1344 @ 68 Hz I'm not sure what smaller resolutions are, but usually the difference is about 10 Hz, so it should be right on spec with the Viewsonic at the smaller resolutions... this ones goes bigger and was $30 cheaper AND was black to match my case, so I scored it.

I think that's all my news for now. I think I am going to go with Serial ATA, but I still haven't decided for sure yet.