Win 2K and Hyper Threading

SteveLawson · TweakNOOB Joined: 15 Jan 2004 Posts: 10

I just read a comment in one of the forums leading me to believe that Even if I have a board and cpu that will hyper thread, it won't work if I'm using Win2000. I hope that's not the case because I really don't want to bury myself with all the extra crap in xp.
Steve

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mogur · Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2004 11:26 pm Post subject:

Win2000 recognizes hyper-threading and is compatible, but it's not optimized for it. My quick research shows that you must re-install win2000 after enabling hyper-threading, and the degree of benefit is debateable. I've grumbled as much as the next guy about the instability of windows over the years, but for what its worth, I'm fairly impressed with xp's stability. Haven't tried win2000, so I don't know how bloated xp is in comparison, but I'm at least anesthetized to it.

[TN] Nathan · ALMIGHTY PWNER! Joined: 14 Feb 2002 Posts: 7406

You can turn off all the extra crap in XP and make it look act and feel just like 2000.

It's called "Performance Mode"
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SteveLawson · TweakNOOB Joined: 15 Jan 2004 Posts: 10

Thanks for the Info. Guess I'll have to go with xp pro. Got a ton invested in new hardware, no sense starting out with a bill gates handicap.
Steve

geekzta127 · Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 1:28 pm Post subject:

no win2000 is fine i have 2.4c and HyPERTHREADING on.

but thats just from my experience.

-verTo- · SirTweaksabit Joined: 29 Oct 2003 Posts: 271

do u get a performance gain? like run 3 benchmarks all the same w/o hyperthreading, average them.. then do the same w/ it on.
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mogur · Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 8:46 pm Post subject:

Intel recommends disabling HT in bios for w2k, nt4, me, and 98.

http://www.intel.com/support/platform/ht/os.htm

-verTo- · SirTweaksabit Joined: 29 Oct 2003 Posts: 271

We know that, but he says hes got it enabled in 2k. I wanna know if it shows any performance gains.. if so.. hell, its going on for me! :)
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geekzta127 · Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2004 2:57 am Post subject:

i've enabled it but i have never ever tried using benchmarking software on anything. I don't believe in benchmarking. i know it sounds *uckn gay of me to say it but it's true i just take to max and if if works better than before hell thats good enough for me. (gaming, and more gaming) SRY.

-verTo- · SirTweaksabit Joined: 29 Oct 2003 Posts: 271

Ok then, did your gaming experience INCREASE when u enabled HT?
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Vcore:1.60 Vdimm:2.7
OCZ PC4200 Performance Series(2x256) 1:1
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Stock Video Card w/ OC proc:
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geekzta127 · Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2004 4:56 pm Post subject:

yes especially on BF1942(desert combat).

-verTo- · SirTweaksabit Joined: 29 Oct 2003 Posts: 271

are you overclocked? how much did your temp raise?
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Aspire X-Alien 420W
ABIT IC7 875P
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Pentium 4 2.6 @ 3.3 255FSB
Vcore:1.60 Vdimm:2.7
OCZ PC4200 Performance Series(2x256) 1:1
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Radeon 9800 Pro

Stock Video Card w/ OC proc:
3dmark03 - 5950
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geekzta127 · Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2004 6:39 pm Post subject:

i used to have it at 3 ghz but i decided to put it back to norm. 2.4

temp was around 45c load. i have a gigabyte mobo.

SteveLawson · TweakNOOB Joined: 15 Jan 2004 Posts: 10

OK, here's the definitive line from ASUS.

I Just received my P4C800 Deluxe MB. On page 2-4 they state:

"Hyper-Threading Technology is supported under Windows XP and Linux 2.4x (kernel) and later versions only. If you are using any other operating systems, disable the Hyper-Threading Technology item in the BIOS to ensure system Stability and performance.

"It is recommended that you install WinXP Service Pack 1."

They don't list Corsair Ram as an approved option either but Corsair is bench testing their ram using ASUS boards.

Go figure?

Steve

Black Francis · Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2004 2:20 am Post subject: OMG Hyper Threading Truth

Well well well. I have found the culprit to my computers underpoerformance. After casually reading through the previous posts I decided that I would try disabling Hyper Threading in the bios. Just for the record:

Abit IC7 Max 3 Bios 13
P4 3.2 C @ 3.81
Asus 9800XT
OCZ 4200 EL 2.5 4 7 7 (running at 475 Mhz 1:1)
Exos Watercool on P4/NB/HD

Well I spent so much time building my dream computer. First the designer motherboard, then the 2.4C, then the Asus 9800XT, then the 3.2C, then 533 Mhz ram, then the WD Raptor, then the Exos, have I overstated my disposition.
So I have Windows 2000 Pro SP4 installed. Low and behold at 3.8 Ghz overclocked with hyper threading enabled my 3DMark 2001SE score is 19500 tops, and with Hyper threading disabled my scores rises a cool 2000pts to 21458. WTF! This is ridiculous . Jesus Aged Christ IF YOU OWN WINDOWS 2000, PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DISABLE HYPER THREADING. I have nothing further to say.
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-verTo- · SirTweaksabit Joined: 29 Oct 2003 Posts: 271

lol...
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ABIT IC7 875P
SP-94 w/ 64CFM
Pentium 4 2.6 @ 3.3 255FSB
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Maxtor 80gb SATA
Radeon 9800 Pro

Stock Video Card w/ OC proc:
3dmark03 - 5950
3dmark01 - 19593

mogur · Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2004 5:59 pm Post subject:

Look it, intel has said that w2k is compatible, but not optimized for HT, and then they turn around and recommend disabling HT on w2k platforms. It is a well known fact that w2k can recognize multi-processors physically, but not logically. So why would they say to shut off HT for an OS that is compatible? The answer is not forthcoming from either intel or microsoft, but some hints can be found in MS's Windows Platform Design Notes- Windows Support for Hyper-Threading Technology

First, it is the responsibility of the m/b manufacturer's bios to properly implement HT at boot up in accordance with intel's specs. There are two parts of this spec, the logical ordering of the processors, and its activation. Since Steve mentions the Asus position, and Francis has related his experience with Abit's Max3 board, I suspect the board manufacturers may have taken a shortcut or two in implementing HT that leaves w2k without the ability to see two different physical cpus. Both winxp and w2k3 use CPUID to identify HT processors and are therefore truely HT aware. If the bios doesn't use CPUID properly, also, then w2k is left in the dark.

Second, since neither w2k or winxp have an API that can recognize HT processors, the applications that take advantage of HT must also use CPUID to recognize this capability. W2k3, on the other hand, has GetLogicalProcessorInformation available to not only recognize HT, but it also can relate the bits in the processor affinity mask to the appropriate logical processor. I am guessing that even with proper bios implementation, w2k must be installed after HT is enabled to properly setup the processor affinity mask. This assumption, of course, is only valid if w2k, unlike winxp, doesn't take advantage of the CPUID function.

At any rate, once again, intel and ms just issue simple edicts, without clearly stating the situation, which leaves us stabbing in the dark for reasons. Geekzta and Black Francis have clearly taken two different stabs at this problem, and I lean towards the benchmarks.