I am a little behind...

FroGGer · Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 12:29 pm Post subject: I am a little behind...

on knowledge of new computer hardware. I have been looking for a website (or maybe there is a section on TN) that goes through in detail and explains each new piece of hardware used in computers and goes through the new technology. I built my machine about 3 years ago and will be looking to build myself a new one in about 4 months. I've been busy at work lately and haven't been able to keep up. I just feel lost. Don't get me wrong, I know what SLI is and things like that, but I don't even know the details on the new CPU's. Someone told me to use the new AMD 4200 or 4500 for my new machine. To be honest, I don't know what he is talking about.
Thanks a lot
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sickofsoyo · Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 12:54 pm Post subject:

ok well, the AMD 4200 and 4500 are just a type of speed rating amd uses. Intel kinda does the same thing with its new Core 2 Duos (which are better than the AMD chips ATM) the new AMDs use a new socket: AM2 which allows the Use of DDR2 memory(just the next version from DDR) Intel has socket 775 which also uses DDR2 memory. Most processors now are dual core, meaning there is two cpus on one chip. this makes multitasking easier.

Videocards are now using PCI-Express, a faster interface than AGP. Some systems use dual video vards known as SLI for nvidia, and Cross-fire for ATI. ATI's version uses a cable to connect two DVI ports for crossfire, some cards however need a crossfire edition card such as the X1900XT (needs the X1900 crossfire edition) Nvidia uses a bridge on the top of the graphics cards to link them. and you can use two of the same card for all of them.

Hard drives now have SATA connections which is a smaller cable that allows for faster data transfers. The Western Digital raptors are a 10,000 rpm hard drive that runs on sata. Some drives now use perpendicular recording technilogy to increase capacity.

Anything else you need to know?

Oh, and btw, you should use an intel E6600 for your build... has a 4meg cache, and can be easily overclocked to extreme edition speeds
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[TN] Nathan · ALMIGHTY PWNER! Joined: 14 Feb 2002 Posts: 7406

First thing you need to know that is you don't have to replace your computer at this time.

Just upgrade your processor and videocard and you will be as fast as anyone will need to be.

There is no real need for such fast systems for most people.

I am starting to get concerned about this seeing the hardware industry is almost brainwashing people to think that there hardware is slow even after a year which is complete bull.
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sickofsoyo · Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 3:16 pm Post subject:

his system is three years old nate, he may need more than cpu and vid card... and idk if he plans on gaming, but he wont have many choices cause he prob has agp
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meobius · Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 8:34 pm Post subject:

also on a 3 year old machine it's hard to get parts for it.
For every day use, yes the latest greatest thing is overkill (unless you use norton internet security in which case you need as much cpu power as you can get) For a gamer, you need to upgrade at least a little every year.

As was mentioned ATM, the intels are a better chip. The 4meg l2 cache is nothing more then a marketing scam and doesn't improve performance much if at all. AMD's proved that large amounts of cache doesn't do much, nor does clock speed, it's all in efficiency (unless the cpu needs lots of cache like the p4 series) . It seems intel learned, since the new cpu's are very efficient (amazing what the pre-netburst architecture can do)
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sickofsoyo · Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 8:54 pm Post subject:

true, unless he's a gamer, and like you said, there prob wont be a DX10 AGP card, which means he will have to upgrade his CPU, mobo, and vid card anyways. But you are right that a 3.4, and a faster vid card would be fine for now.
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FroGGer · Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 11:05 pm Post subject:

Well, it is fine, but I pay flight simulator and FSX is coming out soon and it will be demanding on my system. Also, my mother needs a new computer for the family business and she wants to buy mine and I guess I would just build a new one.
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fussnfeathers · Lord of the Tweak Joined: 14 Dec 2004 Posts: 2763

Well, first off, I agree totally with Nathan. My rig (overall) is three years old, and it's more than fast enough for what I need. Today's marketing is still making use of the "old school" format.........remember back in the days of VooDoo vid cards and P3's, hardware didn't upgrade in little jumps. Aside from a few hiccups, the upgrade from P3 to P4 was a major step, and was worth the money.

Honestly, the only "real" hardware changes lately have been the new dual core procs, SLI/Crossfire, and super-high capacity HDDs. Everything else has been little, incremental "fixes" to existing hardware. I run a 2.8ghz P4c......upgrading to a 3.2 or 3.4ghz isn't going to net me enough benefits to spring for the proc. Likewise, my Chaintech mobo, while AGP, is still a very solid performer, fast, dependable, and upgradable to an extent. AGP isn't going away anytime soon, and while I think DX10 AGP cards will be a very small field, they will be available.......the same as new AGP cards are still being released today.

Frogger, here's what I would be looking at, if I were building a new system in four months:

Intel Conroe proc. Hands down, the biggest improvement in procs in the last 5 or 6 years. Yeah, dual core came out a year ago, but the new Intel chews up and spits out AMD like a piece of old chewing gum.

Don't worry about SLI or Crossfire. Neither solution really yeilds enough of a performance gain to make it worth the cash, and from what I'm reading, DX10 will basically remove the need for SLI. Get it if you want, sure, but don't make it a "must have" feature. Single-slot dual GPU cards are a slightly slower, but also cheaper alternative.

I would also be looking at the nVidia Intel Edition chipsets. From everything I've read so far, this appears to be a screaming good chipset, and if you want dual video cards, SLI is the better way to go.....and with AMD buying ATI, I expect that the Intel chipset for nVidia SLI will get even better.

Other than that, nothing really is all that different. Like SoS said, you'll be looking at SATA drives, but that's more of an interface change than anything really dramatic. Just get the biggest you can afford.

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Mordacain · Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 4:48 am Post subject:

Everything you've read so far is good infromation. Just as a counter-point, I'd like to address a couple of things I don't agree with.

AGP will only remain in the capacity that PCI video cards remain in now. It is a very limited field and any performance cards released since the advent of PCI-E have been muuuuuuch more expensive adn have lagged behind their price equivalents on the PCI-E side. The nVidia-based 7800 GS is still close to $300, the x1900AIW, which is only around $215 runs anywhere from about 10-40% faster in various titles. I can't recommend anything with AGP if you are upgrading a motherboard at all...go w/ PCI-E.

Also, the nForce 5 chipset is not very mature and has been found to have some glitches. That's not to say that SLi should not be considered, but it's not realy the most cost effective option to begin with and can lead to instability depending on your choice of graphics cards used.
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fussnfeathers · Lord of the Tweak Joined: 14 Dec 2004 Posts: 2763

I wasn't really recommending AGP as an upgrade............just saying that it wasn't dead yet, and if he chose to run his rig for another year (and stick Vista on it), it would most likely be possible to buy an AGP DX10-capable card to run that rig for awhile longer. I sure hope so, 'cause I'm one of those people who'll want a DX10 capable card for the family multi-purpose rig.

Also remember that the nForce5 Intel chipset is a refinement of the original nForce4 Intel chipset........it's not new, and from what few accounts are available, is a whole lot better than the original. And, as I said, with AMD buying ATI, I'm watching that one closely.
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sickofsoyo · Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 9:24 am Post subject:

yeah, watch for the Nforce 590 chipset, its not released yet but should be an even bigger improvement over the 570. And as they said PCI-E has the future as AGP will be more expensive and limited...

If I was building a system, it'd have to be:

Intel Conroe E6600
Nvidia 590 chipset mobo
PCI-E DX10 vid card
some SATA2 hdd's

(just main components)

you'd be pretty future proof for a while with that setup.
of course you have quad-core kentsfield and AMD 4x4 comin out but its not worth the heavy pricetag.
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Mordacain · Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 4:06 am Post subject:

Guys, what I was referring to in terms of issues was with the Intel derivatives of nForce chipsets.

For AMD, it is a mature platform. That is not the case with nForce on an Intel platform. This is only their second outing with Intel, and once again, they are porting a chipset built around using a Hypertransport bus that Intel does not have the equivalent of. This is compensated for in the northbridge (personally, my theory is this is the source of the instability).

Even checking just the reviews on Newegg, you'll see many buyer beware posts warning of the instability and unreliability of the nForce boards currently available for Intel. Not to mention they only have 8 different boards total. Adding this to my own experience just makes me not want to trust my hard-earned dough to another one just yet. Perhaps once they've made a chipset built around the Core 2 architecture it will be a bit more reliable.
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Sally · UberTweaker Joined: 31 Mar 2004 Posts: 1158 Location: WA

Perhaps the most important thing to consider is the intended use, budget, and desire. From the looks of his current specs, the didn't buy off of the bottom shelf 3 years ago.

Needs and wants ultimately direct the system within the constraint of budget. If he is just in need of some added computing performance and some more current gaming compatability, then Nate is on the ball: CPU & Video is a good start. If , however, he is going to want to stay current in gaming/power, this upgrade will only last perhaps an additional 8-12 months. If the member in question wishes to upgrade to another three-year system, gut the case and prime the Mastercard. Something in dual core and 64 bit (Core 2 Duo, 64X2, etc.) and a boat-load of RAM is likely in order, with a 7800 or two (or more) in the PCIe and all of the other appropriate goodies to make this whole thing run stable and cool (and wet?).

This is my $.02. We really need intent and usage in order to diagnose, othwise we are all just ranting on "what I would do..." and ultimately not being all too productive. Very Happy

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FroGGer · Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 9:48 am Post subject:

Well, the time has come and I am going to start looking. My mother's computer is about 5 years old and she is complaining it is too slow. I am going to give her some of my parts and buy some new ones for her. The only thing I am thinking of keeping are my hard drives. I think 2 36 GB raptors in RAID 0 are still the fastest drives around, right?
My intended use is gaming, some video editing, making dvd's and other minor stuff. I am big into flight simulator which requires a lot computing power. So my question is, which cpu and mobo should I get. I have a budget but it's not too high and not too low. I would be willing to spend a little more to get something better. Is SLI or the ATI equivalent a good investment. Obviously, I would need 64 bit cpu, right? I am also looking at 2 GB of ram. What is the speed of the Dual Channel RAM these days, I see different speeds all over the place but like I said before, I'm a little out of touch.
thanks
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Xal · Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 1:39 pm Post subject:

Nvidia just released the 8800 series which are DX10 cards so if you plan on future proofing then I would go with one of them. The conroe CPUs are an awesome investment and should rule the roost for quite some time as the OCers choice. As for motherboards I would look at a DFI lanparty with either an intel 965 chipset or an nforce 590, depending on what gfx card you go with. If you plan on waiting for a while to see what ATI come up with for DX10 then go for an intel chipset, if you plan on going nvidia then go for the nforce. Above all just do research on your choices before you buy

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FroGGer · Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 2:57 pm Post subject:

this may be a stupid question, but where is the best place to get a quick lesson on the newest technologies? I have been on the forums here for a bit, but an not familiar with all the new stuff so I get lost sometimes.

Thanks for your help, I have a lot of work to do.
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Zero_Fresh · Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 12:36 pm Post subject:

A great way is to read up here and look at some newer catalogs, then just look up anything you aren't familiar with as you go. This way you'll not only get the descriptions of the technologies in question, you'll also get to hear what people say about their practicle use as well.
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sickofsoyo · Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 4:06 pm Post subject:

Id go with,

E6600

mobo with Nvidia 680i chipset

single 8800
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2old2care · Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 9:08 pm Post subject:

Should be able to pick up a QX6700 in the next day or two. Will only set you back 1500.

Suppose to be awesome.
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FroGGer · Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 11:26 pm Post subject:

So SLI is not worth the money if you say single 8800. Can I buy a mobo with SLI ready and only put one GPU in it for now and upgrade later if I want?
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fussnfeathers · Lord of the Tweak Joined: 14 Dec 2004 Posts: 2763

Yup, you can run just one vid card if you choose.
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sickofsoyo · Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 6:57 am Post subject:

the 8800 destroys any SLI setup anyway, image an SLI setup with those

. One 8800 is sufficient for now, may need another one once games start using DX10, and become more complex.
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FroGGer · Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 1:11 am Post subject:

What if I want to have dual monitors. I have a Samsung SyncMaster 971P LCD and a NEC MultiSync FB912 SB CRT. Can I have dual montor setup with these two monitors and any video card, or do you have to buy certain video cards for dual monitor setups?
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ToggleHead · TWEAKGURU Joined: 03 Mar 2004 Posts: 4360 Location: Jersey

Yeah you need certain video cards for dual monitors....most of the new (last two years) vidcards have dual monitor support....but it will tell you if it does...=]
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