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[TN] Nathan
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 Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 12:58 am Post subject: Advertisement |
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Ham_fisT
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| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 1:28 am Post subject: |
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this is actually an old trick, using acetone in fuel to help a vehicle pass an emissions test that it probably wouldn't have passed on straight gasoline, (used in slightly larger quantities), but this is the first I have heard of it increasing fuel mileage.
I may give it a test when I get back on my "Foot", and start driving regularly again.
BTW....Great find Nate, what with these ridiculous gas prices 
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[TN] Nathan
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| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 3:15 am Post subject: |
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Yea, I figure tweakers probably would like to tweak their ride for better performance and economy like I do with my truck. 
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HoseB
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| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 7:52 am Post subject: |
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I minored in Chemistry in college, and I'm sure my brain is a little rusty. Regarding acetone, however...
a. I'm surprised about claims of significant gas mileage increase. Not logical.
1. The energy content of alcohols (acetone is one) is less than petrofuels.
2. Acetone breaks hydrostatic bonds in water. *Perhaps* this property might improve fuel's vaproizaton ??
b. "Clean up emmissions"?. Yes, likely. Acetone would be an oxygenator.
c. "Reduced effect with alcohol laced fuels"? Yes. Alcohol is added as an oxygenator to clean up emissions. Adding acetone likely to be ineffective, as the alcohol in the fuel already provides that function.
d. Acetone's everyday use includes fingernail polish remover.
FWIW... |
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ToggleHead
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| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 10:15 am Post subject: |
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dont have a car yet to try this out..... and if i get the car im trying to..... no WAY am i trying it.....
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2old2care
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| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 10:58 am Post subject: |
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Snake oil....
May have an effect on older cars...but it shouldn't do a thing to modern "computerized" fuel injected cars. (might clean injectors a bit though)
Like hose said no octane....
precision in the calculation is a must...which is hard to do in everyday driving...
And...MPG really doesn't matter  reality is cost per mile....must factor that in also.
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Sally
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| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 11:51 am Post subject: |
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My CitiBank Card gives me 5% back on fuel purchases...beat that!
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Ham_fisT
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| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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the intent is not to replace gasoline with a higher energy output fuel, (we're talking about 2oz in 10 galons of gasoline), but rather to aid in the vaporisation of fuel entering the combustion chamber, resulting in a more complete burn.
it's not snake oil, and has been used in racing engines for years as an octane boost. (octane rating being the ability of a fuel to RESIST combustion, thereby limiting pre-ignition, and allowing higher compression ratios).
Increased octane, and more complete vaporisation of fuel will definately have positive effects on fuel economy, and emissions
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Josh
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| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Sally wrote: | | My CitiBank Card gives me 5% back on fuel purchases...beat that! |
Lol...look whos sorted
If i was old enough to drive and have a car...i would try it What car you thinking of getting TH?
Not too mention that that would be worth while here in the UK, seeing as fuel prices are RIDICULOUS, you complain about yours over in the US, we pay 80p + per LITRE. Thats US$1.51. Not too mention all your prices are given per GALLON  Yeah, now you are glad you dont drive here 
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HoseB
SirTweaksabit
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| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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And another thing....
If it costs $40-$50+ for a fillup of gasoline... and you could "increase mileage by 15-35% with $.50 worth of acetone", don't you think someone would be hawking the crap out of the concept? At least some snake oilers? Or, logically, this is the best kept secret since the Tooth Fairy, and the Oil Cartel is squashing it from public knowledge.
Believers are experiencing placebo effect? |
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2old2care
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| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Ham_fisT wrote: | the intent is not to replace gasoline with a higher energy output fuel, (we're talking about 2oz in 10 galons of gasoline), but rather to aid in the vaporisation of fuel entering the combustion chamber, resulting in a more complete burn.
it's not snake oil, and has been used in racing engines for years as an octane boost. (octane rating being the ability of a fuel to RESIST combustion, thereby limiting pre-ignition, and allowing higher compression ratios).
Increased octane, and more complete vaporisation of fuel will definately have positive effects on fuel economy, and emissions |
I understand...but in most of the US...(just to clarify) we use oxygenated fuel...here in Phoenix we use 10% alc 6 months of the year and 15% ether the others....It's a costly blend to reduce emissions, and in modern cars (post throttlebody injection) it doesn't increase or decrease or gas miles much at all. It does help the burn, which is a big deal insomuch as not wasting fuel in the combustion cycle, but it doesn't have much energy itself.
BTW...the big cost of fuel for most of use is taxes...
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[TN] Nathan
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| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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To say the least, the lack of open headed thinking in this thread combined with pure ignrance is a little appalling. 
This technique actually has been used for years to help vaporize the fuel better when it is injected into the cylinder.
This coupled with the fact that it burns colder than the gas itself makes it almost EXACTLY like octane which will allow your engine to run at its maximum spark advance without detonation and pinging.
Running at 5 fl oz per 20 gallons is an incredibly low concentration.
I am going to test this out and see if it helps at all.
All I have to save is money really.
PS: If you are just going to contribute to this thread in a constructive manor whether positive or negative, please do so.
If you are just going to ignorantly say "NO WAY!", then don't hit the reply button.
I am not going to have this rather interesting and possibly viable thread rendered worthless with a bunch of baseless, paranoid and ignorant comments made by people not wanting to try something that could help us with the high price of gas lately.
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Silicon Skum
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| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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There are a few different chemicals that can be added to fuel in cars that will give similar results. BUT, there are problems asociated with most of these chemicals ( toxic, bio-hazardous, engine damage, etc). Im not impressed that all these links all quote the same author and all show (more or less) the exact same original post.
I find it hard to belive major organisations such as GreenPeace or "green" political parties have never attempted to push such a method of improving fuel milage in automobiles (which are a HUGE source of pollution), especially as it could be so cheaply done to existing engines.
Also I'm a bit worried about the author's dislike of alcohol based fuels, some of the "information" he provided was nothing but F.U.D (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt). He has also clearly NEVER investigated Ethonol / methonol as primary fuel in cars, as he has not mentioned the fact that Alcohol has a higer Octane rating (resistance to pre-ignition) and as such can take advantage of a MUCH higher compression ratio, up to 16:1 as opposed to the more common 8.*:1 / 10.*:1 ratios found in most petrol engines. Seems like he's trying to push his own meathod as opposed to someone who is truely concerned with futre clean / fuel efficient fuels and engines, as the sites where this post are located would seem to indicate.
I'm not saying that this is all rubbish, there is some actual evidence of prior use of Acetone in fuel, but I would be VERY carfull about adding ANY chemical to the fuel of a car that was not designed to run that combination. Im more than willing to use an alternative fuel combination that can deliver the claims, but not at the expense of my fuel system componants or engine.
With modern engine ECU / fuel injection combinations the altered fuel burn byproducts could cause problems with incorrectly adjusted fueling to the engine. The main cause for this would be the Lambda sensor in the exhaust registering a different value that expected and the ECU trying to compensate due to the fact it was programed for standard untreated pumped fuel.
Does ANYONE know about the longterm affects on the Lambda sensor?, these are not cheap and would outweight the fuel savings if the have to be replaced every few K miles!
SS
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[TN] Nathan
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| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Silicon Skum wrote: | There are a few different chemicals that can be added to fuel in cars that will give similar results. BUT, there are problems asociated with most of these chemicals ( toxic, bio-hazardous, engine damage, etc). Im not impressed that all these links all quote the same author and all show (more or less) the exact same original post.
I find it hard to belive major organisations such as GreenPeace or "green" political parties have never attempted to push such a method of improving fuel milage in automobiles (which are a HUGE source of pollution), especially as it could be so cheaply done to existing engines. |
So you are saying that because an environmental firm doesn't back it that it won't be valid?
A lot of people are also stating "Why wouldn't the oil companies use it?" question.
There is an easy answer to this. Why would you introduce something into your product that has people buying less of your product when you include it?
| Silicon Skum wrote: | | Also I'm a bit worried about the author's dislike of alcohol based fuels, some of the "information" he provided was nothing but F.U.D (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt). He has also clearly NEVER investigated Ethonol / methonol as primary fuel in cars, as he has not mentioned the fact that Alcohol has a higer Octane rating (resistance to pre-ignition) and as such can take advantage of a MUCH higher compression ratio, up to 16:1 as opposed to the more common 8.*:1 / 10.*:1 ratios found in most petrol engines. Seems like he's trying to push his own meathod as opposed to someone who is truely concerned with futre clean / fuel efficient fuels and engines, as the sites where this post are located would seem to indicate. |
As a user of the ethanol based fuel in the winter time here in Canada, there is definite reasons why I would not support alcohol based fuels. My truck runs a lot worse during the winter with the winter fuel and the fuel economy is crap and almost 3 MPG less than when they introduce the summer based fuels back at the pumps in the latter part of June.
| Silicon Skum wrote: | | I'm not saying that this is all rubbish, there is some actual evidence of prior use of Acetone in fuel, but I would be VERY carfull about adding ANY chemical to the fuel of a car that was not designed to run that combination. Im more than willing to use an alternative fuel combination that can deliver the claims, but not at the expense of my fuel system componants or engine. |
A lot of the tested fuel system treatments are actually acetone based including the highly sought after Chemtool B12 which is sworn by in the performance market. Acetone is no worse than any other chemical included in today's gas at the moment. And besides, 150ml per 20 gallons is not going to do any harm to an engine even if you introduce 150 mls of pancake syrup.
| Silicon Skum wrote: | | With modern engine ECU / fuel injection combinations the altered fuel burn byproducts could cause problems with incorrectly adjusted fueling to the engine. The main cause for this would be the Lambda sensor in the exhaust registering a different value that expected and the ECU trying to compensate due to the fact it was programed for standard untreated pumped fuel. |
The OBDI and OBDII ECU computers in todays cars will not be affected in any way buy such small quantities of a product such as this. The incresed alcohol introduced in the winter in our fuel doesn't kill our O2 sensors, so why would this?
| Silicon Skum wrote: | Does ANYONE know about the longterm affects on the Lambda sensor?, these are not cheap and would outweight the fuel savings if the have to be replaced every few K miles!
SS |
Replacing an O2 sensor every few 1000 miles? Don't you think that is a little extreme?
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sandness
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| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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The author's dislike of alcohol based fuels is what got me too. It was this opposition that discreditied any claims he made. Here in the midwest in the US, most gas contains 10% ethanol, with some even 85% for flex fuel vehicles. It has been for years. The ethanol is being produced from corn which is obviously a renewable resource. It burns cleaner than gasoline and is not the evil villain the author portrays it to be.
This statement in the articles depicts the author's marketing sauve with his vague understanding of chemistry:
| wrote: | | Acetone drastically reduces the surface tension. Most fuel molecules are sluggish with respect to their natural frequency. Acetone has an inherent molecular vibration that "stirs up" the fuel molecules, to break the surface tension. |
So, combining this statement with the claims of 15-35% mpg increase, he is saying that 15-35% of the fuel that it "stirs up" would normally go unburned? Bull-f***ing s*** it would. Any fuel injected car would not be running that rich. The oxygen sensor (or lambda senor for the Brits) would lean out the mixture if such was the case.
And, as SS mentioned, the fact that all the websites revert back to the same quotes and graphs gives me no real "proof" of it working. It might help clean up the fuel system, unclog an injector, or cheat you through a smog test. But if such a cheap additive worked to increase mileage, wouln't it have been on the store shelves for years? |
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Ham_fisT
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| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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It has been on the shelf for YEARS, in the form of Berrymans Chemtool fuel additive. a product that is acetone based, and has been a performance, and racing "Secret" for many years
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[TN] Nathan
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| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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| sandness wrote: | The author's dislike of alcohol based fuels is what got me too. It was this opposition that discreditied any claims he made. Here in the midwest in the US, most gas contains 10% ethanol, with some even 85% for flex fuel vehicles. It has been for years. The ethanol is being produced from corn which is obviously a renewable resource. It burns cleaner than gasoline and is not the evil villain the author portrays it to be.
This statement in the articles depicts the author's marketing sauve with his vague understanding of chemistry:
| wrote: | | Acetone drastically reduces the surface tension. Most fuel molecules are sluggish with respect to their natural frequency. Acetone has an inherent molecular vibration that "stirs up" the fuel molecules, to break the surface tension. |
So, combining this statement with the claims of 15-35% mpg increase, he is saying that 15-35% of the fuel that it "stirs up" would normally go unburned? Bull-f***ing s*** it would. Any fuel injected car would not be running that rich. The oxygen sensor (or lambda senor for the Brits) would lean out the mixture if such was the case.
And, as SS mentioned, the fact that all the websites revert back to the same quotes and graphs gives me no real "proof" of it working. It might help clean up the fuel system, unclog an injector, or cheat you through a smog test. But if such a cheap additive worked to increase mileage, wouln't it have been on the store shelves for years? |
You don't understand, this has been used for years.
He never said anything about stirring up anything. He said 15-35% economy differnce and nothing about the 15-35% meaning the amount of fuel lost....
With more complete combustion and lower combustion temperatures introduced through the acetone acting exactly like octane, spark advance can be advaced and you will indeed need less throttle.
Alcohol is not the answer, we have strong alcohol based fuels in Canada called "Winter Gas" and the stuff makes my truck run like absolute garbage and kills my economy and power.
Also, Acetone has been on the market and shelves as chemtool B12 which is mostly acetone based. People can't get enough of it.
Octane booster is also on the shelves for 50 years as Toluene and Xylene and guess what, they are paint thinners.
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sandness
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| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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Perhaps I wasn't totally clear. There are a few different Chemtool products out there, of which their Premium Gas Treatment contains 15-20% acetone per MSDS rating.
http://www.haysoil.com/MSDS/Berryman8016.pdf
Their other similiar products contain less. These products only claim to clean out the fuel system and lubricate.
http://www.berrymanproducts.com/Default.aspx?tabid=140
B-12 CHEMTOOL® TOTAL FUEL SYSTEM CLEAN-UP claims increased mileage, but is only to be used once every 3,000 miles? Must not be because of the acetone- only one tank will burn it.
EMISSIONS PASS PROTECTION also claims better mileage, but is also not stated to be used on every tank. Also, it contains 70-80% "hydrocarbon solvent" according to its MSDS sheet, which may or may not be acetone- far too many hydrocarbon solvents out there.
http://www.haysoil.com/MSDS/Berryman0212-0201-0205.pdf
Basically, I'm saying that acetone will clean up a dirty fuel system which should increased mileage (and IMO, this is why some people saw improvments). But, do I think it should it be used in every tank as stated? No. |
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sandness
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| Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 12:02 am Post subject: |
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Okay, where shall my rebuttal.
[quote-" "]Alcohol is not the answer, we have strong alcohol based fuels in Canada called "Winter Gas" and the stuff makes my truck run like absolute garbage and kills my economy and power[/quote]
What's in your "Winter Gas" anyway? I'm thinking it is not ethanol. Here, our pumps have 87octane, 89octane with 10% ethanol, and whatever high octane with 10% ethanol. I always get better results running the same results running 87 or 89. I usually run 89 as it is cheaper than 87.
| wrote: | | With more complete combustion and lower combustion temperatures introduced through the acetone acting exactly like octane, spark advance can be advaced and you will indeed need less throttle. |
As adding ethanol to gasoline increases its octane rating, I don't see how alcohols are so bad in fuel. Also, if you are saying that by adding acetone you increase the octane and thus increase mileage, wouldn't ethanol/methanol be in the same ballpark? They also burn much cleaner than the toxic toluene and xylene that also boost octane.
| wrote: | | Also, Acetone has been on the market and shelves as chemtool B12 which is mostly acetone based. People can't get enough of it. |
As in my previous post, the common fuel additive is NOT mostly acetone, only 20% or less.
| wrote: | | He never said anything about stirring up anything. He said 15-35% economy differnce and nothing about the 15-35% meaning the amount of fuel lost.... |
This really pissed me off. Did you not read the pages you linked us to? Well, here goes...
Hmm, disagree now?
The author seems convined that fuel normall is not completely vaporized and is wasted- "wasted past the rings or sent out the tailpipe" as he put it. So, maybe not 15-35% goes out the exhaust specifically, but something close to such figures. If your gain 35% in fuel economy, that means you were roughly wasting 35% prior. |
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[TN] Nathan
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| Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 12:04 am Post subject: |
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| sandness wrote: | Perhaps I wasn't totally clear. There are a few different Chemtool products out there, of which their Premium Gas Treatment contains 15-20% acetone per MSDS rating.
http://www.haysoil.com/MSDS/Berryman8016.pdf
Their other similiar products contain less. These products only claim to clean out the fuel system and lubricate.
http://www.berrymanproducts.com/Default.aspx?tabid=140
B-12 CHEMTOOL® TOTAL FUEL SYSTEM CLEAN-UP claims increased mileage, but is only to be used once every 3,000 miles? Must not be because of the acetone- only one tank will burn it.
EMISSIONS PASS PROTECTION also claims better mileage, but is also not stated to be used on every tank. Also, it contains 70-80% "hydrocarbon solvent" according to its MSDS sheet, which may or may not be acetone- far too many hydrocarbon solvents out there.
http://www.haysoil.com/MSDS/Berryman0212-0201-0205.pdf
Basically, I'm saying that acetone will clean up a dirty fuel system which should increased mileage (and IMO, this is why some people saw improvments). But, do I think it should it be used in every tank as stated? No. |
Realistically, no one here can discount or prove it without actual testing and results.
The pure negative bashing and trying to disprove this would be like explaining overclocking to a novice computer users that is too scared to hurt his computer.
Come on guys, open your eyes a bit and quit pulling excuses and opinion out of your butts to disprove this.
Basically, it won't hurt anything, so what do you have to lose.
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[TN] Nathan
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| Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 12:16 am Post subject: |
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| sandness wrote: | Okay, where shall my rebuttal.
What's in your "Winter Gas" anyway? I'm thinking it is not ethanol. Here, our pumps have 87octane, 89octane with 10% ethanol, and whatever high octane with 10% ethanol. I always get better results running the same results running 87 or 89. I usually run 89 as it is cheaper than 87.
As adding ethanol to gasoline increases its octane rating, I don't see how alcohols are so bad in fuel. Also, if you are saying that by adding acetone you increase the octane and thus increase mileage, wouldn't ethanol/methanol be in the same ballpark? They also burn much cleaner than the toxic toluene and xylene that also boost octane.
As in my previous post, the common fuel additive is NOT mostly acetone, only 20% or less.
This really pissed me off. Did you not read the pages you linked us to? Well, here goes...
Hmm, disagree now?
The author seems convined that fuel normall is not completely vaporized and is wasted- "wasted past the rings or sent out the tailpipe" as he put it. So, maybe not 15-35% goes out the exhaust specifically, but something close to such figures. If your gain 35% in fuel economy, that means you were roughly wasting 35% prior. |
Yes, our fuel is heavily laden with alcohol and ethanol in the winter here.
No, you get more fuel economy because your spark advance is advanced more due to the combustion temperature being reduced and the knock sensors not retarding the timing.
Our computer controlled engines are always running at maximum spark advance. With a controlled combustion temperature, our engines will be less likely to ping causing the knock sensors to do their job and dial back the spark advance.
The 35% more fuel is not blowing by our rings etc....
If it was, our engine oil would be turned into a solvent in only a tankfull of fuel and our engines would seize.
This is exactly like Toluene and xylene in our gas as octane boosters. They are paint thinners.
But realistically, I have no idea what is up with your vendetta to stop people from trying this when you are unwilling to do so.
I am considered a reasonably smart guy and I am trying it.
Why you are going off on a mission to disprove this is beyond me.
The person isn't selling you anything, yet you are trying to treat him like a salesman selling you a product on an informercial.
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Last edited by [TN] Nathan on Tue Apr 12, 2005 12:18 am; edited 2 times in total |
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sandness
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| Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 12:16 am Post subject: |
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| [TN] Nathan wrote: | | sandness wrote: | Perhaps I wasn't totally clear. There are a few different Chemtool products out there, of which their Premium Gas Treatment contains 15-20% acetone per MSDS rating.
http://www.haysoil.com/MSDS/Berryman8016.pdf
Their other similiar products contain less. These products only claim to clean out the fuel system and lubricate.
http://www.berrymanproducts.com/Default.aspx?tabid=140
B-12 CHEMTOOL® TOTAL FUEL SYSTEM CLEAN-UP claims increased mileage, but is only to be used once every 3,000 miles? Must not be because of the acetone- only one tank will burn it.
EMISSIONS PASS PROTECTION also claims better mileage, but is also not stated to be used on every tank. Also, it contains 70-80% "hydrocarbon solvent" according to its MSDS sheet, which may or may not be acetone- far too many hydrocarbon solvents out there.
http://www.haysoil.com/MSDS/Berryman0212-0201-0205.pdf
Basically, I'm saying that acetone will clean up a dirty fuel system which should increased mileage (and IMO, this is why some people saw improvments). But, do I think it should it be used in every tank as stated? No. |
Realistically, no one here can discount or prove it without actual testing and results.
The pure negative bashing and trying to disprove this would be like explaining overclocking to a novice computer users that is too scared to hurt his computer.
Come on guys, open your eyes a bit and quit pulling excuses and opinion out of your butts to disprove this.
Basically, it won't hurt anything, so what do you have to lose. |
As much BS as I think it is, I will try it. Acetone is cheap enough and it will not hurt anything.
Hell, I once made my own "Tornado Air Fuel Saver" just for kicks. No, it did not work. Didn't notice a difference. It was a very dumb invention that had little thought behind it. Sure, swirling air flows through a pipe better. But if the pipe splits into 4,6, or 8 smaller pipes at the manifold, the swirling action is totally lost and thus is worthless. [/end rant] |
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sandness
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| Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 12:22 am Post subject: |
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Also, to those who are scared to try it, here's a thought.
Why not give it a shot? Do you think it will harm the soft parts in the fuel system? - If that is your reason, then think of it this way: Gas is also a solvent that is just as strong (more or less). It does no harm. |
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[TN] Nathan
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| Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 12:25 am Post subject: |
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| sandness wrote: | As much BS as I think it is, I will try it. Acetone is cheap enough and it will not hurt anything.
Hell, I once made my own "Tornado Air Fuel Saver" just for kicks. No, it did not work. Didn't notice a difference. It was a very dumb invention that had little thought behind it. Sure, swirling air flows through a pipe better. But if the pipe splits into 4,6, or 8 smaller pipes at the manifold, the swirling action is totally lost and thus is worthless. [/end rant] |
This is true. The tornado thing is a scam.
But this could helps things out a bit.
Remember, a vehicle getting 15mpg normally going up to 17 mpg is a 13% economy increase which will net a 40 miles extra to a tank which is actually pretty good.
I am going to try it with 2.5 Fl OZ per 10 gallons. Or 5 Fl Oz per tank.
Heck, I got nothing let to lose, and people are really talking about the driveability increase when using it.
Heck, even if I can get a little more pop out of the throttle with the same economy I will be happy.
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sandness
SirTweaksabit
Joined: 18 Oct 2004
Posts: 274
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| Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 12:40 am Post subject: |
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| [TN] Nathan wrote: | | sandness wrote: | Okay, where shall my rebuttal.
What's in your "Winter Gas" anyway? I'm thinking it is not ethanol. Here, our pumps have 87octane, 89octane with 10% ethanol, and whatever high octane with 10% ethanol. I always get better results running the same results running 87 or 89. I usually run 89 as it is cheaper than 87.
As adding ethanol to gasoline increases its octane rating, I don't see how alcohols are so bad in fuel. Also, if you are saying that by adding acetone you increase the octane and thus increase mileage, wouldn't ethanol/methanol be in the same ballpark? They also burn much cleaner than the toxic toluene and xylene that also boost octane.
As in my previous post, the common fuel additive is NOT mostly acetone, only 20% or less.
This really pissed me off. Did you not read the pages you linked us to? Well, here goes...
Hmm, disagree now?
The author seems convined that fuel normall is not completely vaporized and is wasted- "wasted past the rings or sent out the tailpipe" as he put it. So, maybe not 15-35% goes out the exhaust specifically, but something close to such figures. If your gain 35% in fuel economy, that means you were roughly wasting 35% prior. |
Yes, our fuel is heavily laden with alcohol and ethanol in the winter here.
No, you get more fuel economy because your spark advance is advanced more due to the combustion temperature being reduced and the knock sensors not retarding the timing.
Our computer controlled engines are always running at maximum spark advance. With a controlled combustion temperature, our engines will be less likely to ping causing the knock sensors to do their job and dial back the spark advance.
The 35% more fuel is not blowing by our rings etc....
If it was, our engine oil would be turned into a solvent in only a tankfull of fuel and our engines would seize.
This is exactly like Toluene and xylene in our gas as octane boosters. They are paint thinners.
But realistically, I have no idea what is up with your vendetta to stop people from trying this when you are unwilling to do so.
I am considered a reasonably smart guy and I am trying it.
Why you are going off on a mission to disprove this is beyond me.
The person isn't selling you anything, yet you are trying to treat him like a salesman selling you a product on an informercial. |
Just a few quick comments.
I know that higher octane allows the motor to run at an advanced timing thus producing more power thus requiring less fuel to produce the same power thus increasing mileage.
[1] I was just wondering why your ethanol heavy winter gas was such a poor performer as it should have higher octane and perform better- unless something else is added that causes such problems.
[2] From what I can see, the acetone would only raise the fuel economy by raising the octane level. However, as shown in my images of said sites, they do not claim this but instead claim that the fuel is wasted out the rings/exhaust. This, as you would agree, is blatantly wrong. I wish there were some better references that seemed more logical/plausible to the benefits of acetone. This is the reason why I am attacking the posted sites. |
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