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agchenry
TweakNOOB
Joined: 06 Nov 2004
Posts: 81
Location: FL
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 Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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| ToggleHead wrote: | | wow...i agree...but nathan.......i love you and all..but you COULD be a ittle nicer....=P |
and u really should be a little nicer. Dont know what i have done but seems you dont like me for some reason.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 9:10 pm Post subject: Advertisement |
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Silicon Skum
UberTweaker
Joined: 26 Jul 2004
Posts: 1156
Location: UK, Geordie land
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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| agchenry wrote: | | ToggleHead wrote: | | wow...i agree...but nathan.......i love you and all..but you COULD be a ittle nicer....=P |
and u really should be a little nicer. Dont know what i have done but seems you dont like me for some reason. |
Relax, Nate does'nt mean anything by it, he just men that he had asked what the stock temps were, NOT if it had *never* been at stock speed. 
As your overclocking the temperatures can be very excessive, he wanted to know what the baseline temps were in order to see if there WAS any real problem.
I wouldn't read too much into the thermal probe readings either, it can be VERY difficult to get an acurate reading. I use peltier and water cooling on some of my rigs, in some cases I'm dealing with 2 or 3 times as much thermal load as you. The ONLY relaible method for exact temperature reading is a calibrated thermistor mounted in a cavity *directly* above the CPU die (a VERY small hole driled at an angle and about 1mm of metal remaining between thermistor and CPU die). The mother board probes areusually under the CPU and the readings are"adjusted" to make up for the thermal variance due to the poor locatiion. Sometimes (more so when OCing) the "adjustments" result in a temperature reading outside of tollerance. They are just a guide line, no motherboard probe is exactly right.
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agchenry
TweakNOOB
Joined: 06 Nov 2004
Posts: 81
Location: FL
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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atll no reason to answer someone like he did and apparently i wasnt the only one that thought it wasnt a nice way of putting it. But hey we all have our opinons and i respect that :)
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[TN] Nathan
ALMIGHTY PWNER!
Joined: 14 Feb 2002
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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You need to relax and let it go.
I asked for some information, you didn't supply it so I asked a little more directly for the information again. That is all.
And for the probe temp reading, the core of the cpu does not encompass the whole heatspreader. The core is only a very small square in the center.
With that being said, your proble is only reading the heatspreader temperature that is already being directly cooled by the heatsink.
This in turn shows you a lower temperature.
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agchenry
TweakNOOB
Joined: 06 Nov 2004
Posts: 81
Location: FL
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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I know what the spreader is and i know what the processor looks like w/o the spreader since i have remover spreaders from cpu's in the past, as a matter of fact a P4 w/o the spreader looks alot like a P3. I am not as ignorant as u might think. And u keep telling me to relax. I am relaxed i'm kicking back playing spades in my computer having some drinks lol 
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Silicon Skum
UberTweaker
Joined: 26 Jul 2004
Posts: 1156
Location: UK, Geordie land
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| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 12:00 am Post subject: |
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| agchenry wrote: | | I know what the spreader is and i know what the processor looks like w/o the spreader since i have remover spreaders from cpu's in the past, as a matter of fact a P4 w/o the spreader looks alot like a P3. I am not as ignorant as u might think. And u keep telling me to relax. I am relaxed i'm kicking back playing spades in my computer having some drinks lol |
Nobody is calling you ignorant, no ned to get defensive.
I would listen to the advice Nate gave you, It's correct. This I what I was saying earlier in my other post. Basically it all comes down to specific heat capacity and Thermal resistance of the metal used for the heat spreader, thermal grease / pad and the heatsink material. Unless you know these values it IS hard to get an accurate reading of temperature, even over seemingly small distances.
Anyhow, there is no problem with your system temperature, so all's well. 
Just make sure you keep a carefull check when overclocking, better to assume the high readings are accurate rather than lower!
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agchenry
TweakNOOB
Joined: 06 Nov 2004
Posts: 81
Location: FL
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| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 12:11 am Post subject: |
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agreed, but how much off can a properly placed thermo. be 15 degrees C? (one that i tested with a diffrent thermometer and was about 1% higher than the thermometer. Note: i never said Nate was wrong just said there are nicer ways of getting one's point accross
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[TN] Nathan
ALMIGHTY PWNER!
Joined: 14 Feb 2002
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| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 12:16 am Post subject: |
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I'm unsubscibing to this thread.
I cannot say anything without having it thrown back in my face for being somehow rude.
I give up, you are right.
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Silicon Skum
UberTweaker
Joined: 26 Jul 2004
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Location: UK, Geordie land
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| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 1:25 am Post subject: |
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| agchenry wrote: | | agreed, but how much off can a properly placed thermo. be 15 degrees C? (one that i tested with a diffrent thermometer and was about 1% higher than the thermometer. Note: i never said Nate was wrong just said there are nicer ways of getting one's point accross |
Ok, kinda getting tired of covering the same points, so....
"but how much off can a properly placed thermo. be"
Thermal resistance will effectivly increase with distance, I belive the Heatspreader to be fairly low quality aluminium. So the answer is : It depends on the materials concerned.
"15 degrees C? (one that i tested with a diffrent thermometer and was about 1% higher than the thermometer."
Yep, If the material has a high thermal resistance (due to impurities, defects and nominal thermal properties of the pure material) It could posses a VERY high resistance, where even a few milimeters will be enough to alter the thermal reading.
Something you need to think about, the heatspreader is designed to pass / conduct heat (propagation of Phonons) through ONLY the THINEST area of the material. You are measureing the temperature through the THICKEST area (side - on / 2 dimentional plane) Therefore you will be getting a different resulting thermal reading, as opposed to a direct reading through the contact area (the thinest part). Also the thermomitor and thermal probes are ONLY calibrated for DIRECT / immersion contact of a given material / substance.
Another point to bring up is the Thermal Diode commony found of the Intel CPU, In an Intel P4, the thermal diode happens to be near one corner. This is far away, relatively speaking, from the portion of the die that gets hottest when running typical high stress benchmarking tests. The difference between the hottest point and the thermal diode location can exceed 10° C.
The heat spreader utilized on P4s is partly an attempt to distribute the heat in the core more evenly. There are infact a number of thermal diodes on P4 for controling various thermal throttle functions and thermal bugs within the CPU core (clock gating). The "thermal monitor" and thermal diode" are in seperate parts of the core and are NOT connected in any way to each other. The thermal monitor is responsable for the thermal throttle control, it is located in the HOTTEST part of the core! The thermal diode (what your Mobo reads) is in fact in the coolest part of the core (see above).
Add to this the incorrect values that are "adjusted" to compensate for the innacurate data from the thermal diode, this explains WHY some motherboards read incorrectly on the thermal inforamtion (bad maths, over / under adjustments etc.).
If the relativly SMALL area of the core can affect the thermal diode readings by 10 degrees, what do you think will happen if you monitor the temperature AWAY from the CPU core? A lower incorrect reading, thats what. 
I think that *SHOULD* explain why you can get such an inaccurate reading with the various thermal probes.
I think you will find that *somtimes* just sometimes, someone else can know more that you do.
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Xal
Lord of the Tweak
Joined: 15 Jul 2004
Posts: 2858
Location: Tweaknation =P
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| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 1:47 am Post subject: |
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Oi, c'mon, ease up on Nate, you've p1553d him off now. He was not trying to be rude so there is no need to be rude to him. He runs TN, and does a bloody good job of it too, the least you could do is cut him a little slack. You never had something come out rude unintended?
Please guys its not nice to pick on ppl in the forums, do it via PM so the whole world doesn't se it. I know I am guilty of it 2 but c'mon once is enough you don't have to go on about it.
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agchenry
TweakNOOB
Joined: 06 Nov 2004
Posts: 81
Location: FL
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| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 2:24 am Post subject: |
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Dont think i have been rude to anyone. Quote me where i have been rude or said i know more than anyone. When i started this thread i just wanted to see if other peeps have had the same problem with the same board as i was. Turns out after i started this thread i googled my board and i found dozens of peeps that where having the same situtation that i was. Cant rember which one place i saw (since there was so many) they actually took the spreader of the CPU shimmed the probe a bit so it fit right next to the cpu (just next to it) and placed the heatsink smack on top of it w/o the spreader. turns out the reading they obtained where about as off on the Abit EQ readings as mine. And like i said before I wasnt rude to anyone. BTW i did PM Nate and we are cool
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Xal
Lord of the Tweak
Joined: 15 Jul 2004
Posts: 2858
Location: Tweaknation =P
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| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 2:53 am Post subject: |
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Good to hear
Just trying to keep the peace 
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[TN] Nathan
ALMIGHTY PWNER!
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